1970 numbers matching question.
CF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,328
Likes: 359
From: Delaware
St. Jude Donor '25
lot of possible scenarios here.....my 2 cents, if you are really serious in purchasing the car now, email the seller, tell him how serious you are, and have hime send you a very CLEAR picture of the stamp pad.......then post it hear. There is a guy in NCRS (met him once, forget his name....) who has a huge database on stamp pads and could maybe compare it. If it is a restamp, and the guy thougt (mistakenly) he was making it "numbers matching" by matching up the dates...the stamp job is probably equally as screwed up.....see if you can get a picture and post it up! Good Luck!
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 91
There is a blue 1970 Corvette on that popular auction site that has a build date of June 25th and an engine assembly date of the same day.
Is this possible?
I thought engine assembly always preceded the build date of the car by a week or two.
If it is possible, that's pretty cool.
This isn't my car and I don't have interest in the sale of it.
Just curious. Thanks.
Is this possible?
I thought engine assembly always preceded the build date of the car by a week or two.
If it is possible, that's pretty cool.
This isn't my car and I don't have interest in the sale of it.
Just curious. Thanks.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Likes: 13
From: C3 Forum, Colorado
lot of possible scenarios here.....my 2 cents, if you are really serious in purchasing the car now, email the seller, tell him how serious you are, and have hime send you a very CLEAR picture of the stamp pad.......then post it hear. There is a guy in NCRS (met him once, forget his name....) who has a huge database on stamp pads and could maybe compare it. If it is a restamp, and the guy thougt (mistakenly) he was making it "numbers matching" by matching up the dates...the stamp job is probably equally as screwed up.....see if you can get a picture and post it up! Good Luck!
It was just the date code thing which I found peculiar and wondered if it was possible. But the car is only about 20 miles from me so if anyone else has an interest and wants me to look at it for them let me know. I would be glad to help a potential serious buyer.
If I was in the market though I would have already been there and checked it out first hand and answered all my questions myself.
But then the forum would have missed out on all this useful information.
Thanks again to all that contributed!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Likes: 13
From: C3 Forum, Colorado
This is what I always considered more or less a typical and acceptable date range. Too much more than this may be questionable again. Or not. Especially the other direction too with the assembly date and build date being the same. Wow!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
Well, I've heard back from one of my buddies states that such a thing is possible but highly unlikely.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
good point, but here one can even go a step further and perhaps a car can therefor have an engine with a assembly date of a day or 2 after the trim tag date.. why not 3 or 4 days after? anyway with the uncertainty, I would not pay original engine money for the car.. that does not make it 'illegit' . it may be a real nice car with a replacement engine or a restamp..
plus.. a restamp does not automatically disqualify the car from having the original engine..
now we need to check casting dates of the entire drivetrain components..
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,419
Likes: 22
From: In limbo
St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
Well, I've heard back from one of my buddies states that such a thing is possible but highly unlikely.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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My source above has poked holes in the NCRS rules governing time dated components knowing from his own experience in the factory that exactly this has happened. NCRS judges 'typical factory production' in Flight Judging and no one has yet brought a car forward as a shining example, so it's moot point at present.
Interesting discussion though.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,419
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From: In limbo
St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
The above scenario is also possible- an engine in a completed car sh*ts the bed during the short drive out to the storage yard or while being loaded on a transport truck. It gets returned to the rework area for replacement, but there's no appropriate engine type available on site. A day or two passes awaiting one from an assembly plant that is hot off the press.
Flint is 500 miles from St. Louis, and I believe (though I admit to not being sure) that the engines were shipped via rail. It's been a while since I worked in a manufacturing plant, but I am sure we never got anything shipped overnight from that distance on a train. Loading and staging the rail cars on the siding, arranging the ride, riding 500 miles, getting delivery and unloading from the car is not something I have ever seen done overnight. GM was probably a lot more organized than the companies I worked for because they were likely sending cars out every day, but it still stretches the mind that this could occur overnight.
The re-work area is a common source of weird date codes in any manufacturing plant, which is why I specified that it didn't happen in the "normal course". But that's just the opinion of some guy on the internet, and we all know what that is worth....
