1970 numbers matching question.
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From: C3 Forum, Colorado
1970 numbers matching question.
There is a blue 1970 Corvette on that popular auction site that has a build date of June 25th and an engine assembly date of the same day.
Is this possible?
I thought engine assembly always preceded the build date of the car by a week or two.
If it is possible, that's pretty cool.
This isn't my car and I don't have interest in the sale of it.
Just curious. Thanks.
Is this possible?
I thought engine assembly always preceded the build date of the car by a week or two.
If it is possible, that's pretty cool.
This isn't my car and I don't have interest in the sale of it.
Just curious. Thanks.
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff, but since the engines were assembled in Tonawanda NY, and the cars were assembled in St. Louis MO, I would have to say that a combination like that never left the factory in the normal course. I'm sure someone will chime in with the "if the engine didn't pass QA and the car had to go back for a new engine....." and claim it is possible, but I'm sure I'll remain skeptical.
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Thanks for the response PK, I hope to hear some more opinions on this. I didn't think the engines were assembled in St. Louis with the cars. So that would make this pretty much impossible. I think?
Burning Brakes
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From: Cortlandt Manor New York
Although it is possible it would be highly unlikely that the engine was assembled the same day as the car. Usually the engine dates preceed assembly by 3 to 8 weeks but 6 months prior is acceptable. It is far more likely that someone replaced the motor an either faked the vin or the assembly date.
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From: Southbound
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Post the eBay link and we'll see what the seller claims to have.
PK: big blocks were assembled at Tonawanda; smallblocks were assembled at Flint.
Last edited by Easy Mike; Jun 24, 2010 at 11:47 AM.
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Link
Here's the link. I hope it works.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
Too bad there are no pictures of the trim tag or motor pad.
I'm not calling it a scam but it would be beneficial for him if there were.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
Too bad there are no pictures of the trim tag or motor pad.
I'm not calling it a scam but it would be beneficial for him if there were.
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EasyMike, If the engines were ordered in advance before the assembly of the car that would mean that the workers at St. Louis would stamp the pad. Is this correct? If it is then the date code that is stamped on the pad isn't actually the assembly date of the motor but maybe when the motor was pulled of the rack and assigned to a particular car which would make this car in question legitimate if the motor was pulled of the rack the same day the car was being built.
Now if this is the case, then there's no reason for the 6 month prior to build date allowance. I would think all of them would be dated at least the same day or day before.
Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for all the comments and interest so far though.
Now if this is the case, then there's no reason for the 6 month prior to build date allowance. I would think all of them would be dated at least the same day or day before.
Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for all the comments and interest so far though.
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June 25th is the day the trim tag was stamped and installed on the body, not the day the car was finished. I can't imagine a scenario where the body was delayed enough that an engine assembled the same date would have time to get from Flint MI to St.Louis MO and get plopped into the frame and the two sub assemblies later meet up.
There again, I've learned never to say never. Dunno. I'll ask some guys I know that actually worked there and see if they can comment.
There again, I've learned never to say never. Dunno. I'll ask some guys I know that actually worked there and see if they can comment.
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No, that's not the way it worked at all. The engine plants built engines to a pre-defined schedule based on anticipated orders. The engines were stamped with a code including the day it was assembled. The car plant added a second stamp called the VIN derivative.
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There are two stamps on the pad.
"Numbers Matching. VIN No. 194370S413299, Engine Block 70S413299 V0625CTJ. Trim Tag F25"
Interesting. All that jives for a late June built '70. I'm wondering whether there is a typo in the engine stamp date in the eBay listing.
Last edited by Easy Mike; Jun 24, 2010 at 12:47 PM.
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First time in Flint MI. with the assembly date and suffix code.
Then again in St. Louis when assigned to the car with the VIN derivative.
Which would not make this car legitimate.
Well, as far as the date code anyway.
Last edited by qtlow; Jun 24, 2010 at 01:00 PM.
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As I said, I've asked some friends that actually worked on the assembly line during the C3 era if they know of similar cases.
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Correct.
Correct for smallblocks. Big blocks were assembled at Tonawanda, New York and followed the same procedure.
Correct.
Usually there is a week or longer between the engine assembly date and the time/build date of the Corvette. As an example, the engine assembly date of my '68 is April 9th; the time/build date is April 20th. My smallblock was assembled at Flint on the 9th, shipped to St. Louis, stockpiled, and was waiting for my Corvette on April 20th.
...First time in Flint MI. with the assembly date and suffix code...
...Then again in St. Louis ...with the VIN derivative...
Usually there is a week or longer between the engine assembly date and the time/build date of the Corvette. As an example, the engine assembly date of my '68 is April 9th; the time/build date is April 20th. My smallblock was assembled at Flint on the 9th, shipped to St. Louis, stockpiled, and was waiting for my Corvette on April 20th.
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Well, I've heard back from one of my buddies states that such a thing is possible but highly unlikely.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
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St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
Yes, you are correct. I guess I was thinking of my car when I answered his question. Engine assembly stamp = T0312CZU, Trim tag date = C23. So mine is an 11 day gap. I don't know how that compares to the "typical", but it actually seems short to me based on my experience in manufacturing facilities. Assembed, packed, transferred to load-out, loaded onto a train (? I assume?), shipped, unloaded, checked in, moved into the queue and installed in 11-12 calendar days sounds like well-run process to me!
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Wow! If that is in fact the scenario that took place with this particular car, that is quite neat and unique in my opinion. I have never heard of a engine assembly date and car build date being the same day.
I guess that's mass production for you.
Thanks Mike for your Corvette connections and interest in my post.
I learned something new today.
I guess that's mass production for you.
Thanks Mike for your Corvette connections and interest in my post.
I learned something new today.
Team Owner
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From: Southbound
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Well, I've heard back from one of my buddies states that such a thing is possible but highly unlikely.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
Here's his scenario:
Lets say the engine was built and stamped early in the morning of the 25th. It's loaded and shipped to the St Louis plant on that same day. It's possible that it could arrive at the St Louis plant late on the same day, or possibly early the next day, the 26th.
The body is one of the last to go through paint and the trim tag is stamped and installed at the end of the shift on the 25th.
At this point, the chassis for this car hasn't even been pulled from the pile and set on the line. By the time the chassis is set on the line and an engine pulled from the rack, it's middle of the day, the 26th.
From the time the block is stamped to the time it would be set in the chassis, at least 24 hours have passed.
I don't think I've ever seen a car with a "same day engine" but I probably wouldn't automatically assume that it couldn't happen.
There you go.
Possible, but highly unlikely. Makes you wonder whether they forgot to order the engine from Flint when they scheduled assembly of the Corvette. About the time they slapped the trim tag on it, someone figured out they didn't have an engine.
Thanks for the info, Mike.
qtlow: we all learned something today.
Last edited by Easy Mike; Jun 24, 2010 at 03:13 PM.
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qtlow: we all learned something today.
[/QUOTE]
Not to mention give this seller all kinds of free publicity and attention to his listing by real Corvette enthusiasts. (Which wasn't my intention.)
I hope his information is true and accurate.
[/QUOTE]Not to mention give this seller all kinds of free publicity and attention to his listing by real Corvette enthusiasts. (Which wasn't my intention.)
I hope his information is true and accurate.