Going to Corvettes at Carlisle is a great idea. There will be hundreds of cars for sale there, guaranteed there will be a selection of chrome bumper cars for your perusal, and you can start to get a feel for the differences between years, and what things cost. I am going to try to make it there on Friday, and I would like to bring my car (1970 BB vert). If I pull that one off, I would be happy to take 10-15 minutes to point out the where's and what's of the things I pointed out above, if you are interested.

 

Just about everywhere you go someone will comment on your C-3

 

This has been touched on, but the OP hasn't talked about his preference much.

Assuming you are buying a nicer, numbers matching car, and especially given the fact that A/C (working A/C!) you need to understand that your price range probably requires you limit your search to a coupe. Are you OK with this? Does it matter?

Also, value on these cars are option-sensitive, most especially in the coupes. If you demand A/C you should have to worry about that, but keep it in mind. Dont fall for the "but it doesn't have power-robbing options" excuse.

Make a list of the suggestion people have made here... and do a search on the many, many similar threads asking this same question in the archives. I would still suggest above all other suggestions to bring someone with you who is familiar with C3s when you look at buying. The value is immeasurable. At the very least, a person like that could point out some of the must-see areas in the first few cars you check out, and you will learn some skills for yourself.

One other thing: always, always, always check the engine/VIN numbers yourself (or have a friend do it), and the trim tag. Never ever take a sellers word that numbers match. You get what you deserve if you do.

 

Hi. I just went through a similar exercise of buying a 72 coupe.

Some pointers that worked for me...

1. Finding someone who has owned the car for good period of time will likely get you a
car that has had more than just new seat covers and armor all on the tires.

2. Don't get all hung up on "numbers matching". There are DOZENS of great choices
out there that have period correct, year correct engines in them that have already
been rebuilt. Ok.. so you don't pay $3k - $5k more NOW for the car numbers
matching which means you don't get it back later. ok.. big deal. I've seen some
numbers matching that aren't worth the money. UNLESS you are planning on going
all the way with this thing, then a driver does NOT need to be numbers matching.
This whole thing has gotten way out of hand and is just ludicrous. Over 90% of the
ones you find in your price range will claim numbers matching.. but once you start to
validate you'll find that all the numbers DO NOT match. Don't get sucked into the
hype.. it's not that important. (I'm certain to get blasted on this statement from all
the guys with numbers matching rides, but it's true).

3. The frame is the best place to start. Some have been undercoated. That's a good
sign.

4. a detailed engine compartment says alot about the owner and how the car was
maintained.. Detailed the right way that is.

5. I would look/ask for receipts for CAM, timing chain or water pump, etc. That would
be a good indicator about required or preventative maintenance done.

6. Overall paint condition. You gotta know you are either going to live with current
paint condition or redo it. If redo, then your total spent $$ will go up on the overall
purchase so that has to factor into value of purchase price.

7. In some States you need an inspection. WIll the car pass inspection (lights,
bushings, tire tread, brakes etc. OR do you need to do say $ 3,000 in work to pass?


I would say these are some considerations.

 

Today's fuel gets a bad rap. The new 2011 Explorer is 10.8:1 compression, and the manufacturer is recommending regular gas. My '70 is 10.25:1 and runs fine on 93 octane premium, I have never heard it ping. If I drove enough to care about the gas bills, I would put some 87 in there and see how it ran, I suspect it would be fine. In other words, if we are talking about a car with a stock set-up, that isn't one of the wild and wooly engines (Like an L-88 or something, but in his price range, I don't think we are talking about that), I don't think one needs to be worried about running pump gas.

 

The more modern engines have electronic controls which monitor for detonation among other things. I've heard my 70 ping badly when pushing it using gas which was available in the late 80's and early 90's.
The car has been a project since, very little driving. Maybe something has changed ?

I tend to agree if the buyer isn't buying with intent to compete in NCRS shows. A true numbers matching vehicle will get a higher price due to the relative rarity of such vehicles. This can be taken to include more than matching serial numbers. Casting numbers and dates as well as date codes on several components may be taken into account as well. Depends on how original the seller is claiming it to be.

A claim of numbers matching should be backed up with some documentation. I've heard of a lot of forgeries out there. If there is a $$ incentive, some people will forge the numbers.

So far as future appreciation goes, TBD. A non numbers matching may follow behind a numbers matching, appreciate at the same rate or may
not?

As many have suggested, learn all you can. Recruit an expert to look at candidate if possible.

 

The gas coming out of the gas pump has changed dramatically over the last 40 years. When it comes to pre-ignition, the removal of the tetra-ethyl lead from the gas in 1975 made gas much worse. I remember a 1976 Mercury Station Wagon my Dad bought new with a 351 that pinged going uphill even using premium unleaded, and it was a smogged down low-compression pig. The dealer said there wasn't anything they could do about it, they were all like that. I think the dealer was right, the gas in those days just plain sucked. I think it was the late '80s when MTBE was added to gas (I remember it was when I owned my first 'vette, so it was late '80s or early '90s), from a pre-ignition standpoint, that was a giant leap forward, and gas got a lot better.

The oil companies haven't sat on their hands the last 20 years either, and gas additives have gotten even better. I don't really understand why the ratings on the fuels haven't changed, since octane rating is supposed to be the fuels resistance to pre-ignition, but I do know that the car I have now is higher compression than my old one, and I have never heard this one ping using 93, where I used to struggle with pinging on the old one. On a related note, the more I learned about ignition timing on my old car, the less of a problem I had with pre-ignition.

I have a cousin who recently retired from Sunoco after about 35 years with them, and we have talked about the fuel additives in the past. Next time I see him, I will try to remember to ask why the ratings never changed with the new additives.

 

If you find out how modern gas compares to gas of the era when these cars were made I'd love to hear about it. My experience with heavy pinging comes from the 80's when I drove my Vette frequently. I even tried some Cam 2 racing fuel, half tank mixed with premium of the day. Didn't help much though it was an expensive tank to fill.

 

I agree with almost all points. A bit unsure of this one since most frame rust develops from the inside. Areas which trap sand and salt if it has spent time in the rust belt. Exception may be if the frame were treated on the inside though I've heard if this isn't done properly it can make matters worse, plugging drain holes.

I've seen undercoating used to hide problems. Make it tougher to detect a rust hole beginning to come through. Much depends on where the vehicle was operated. Best bet for a vehicle which is less likely to have rust issues is to buy a vehicle which was operated in the South for most of it's life.

I drove Mustangs before I got into Vettes. Nearly every one from the New England area was a rust bucket. Some weren't more than 6 years old and had major structural rust. I got fed up and bought one from the San Diego area. NO RUST. I spent my time and money on anything but fixing rusted parts. Same applies to the frame and birdcage of Corvettes.

 

Don't expect to make money on a C3 unless it is special. Repairs and maint will probably keep pace with the rise (if any) of market value.

But the rawness of an old car is the big draw to a C3 and a bigblock is the way to go. The other thing you noctice is that people will come up and talk to you when you park and at stop lights, its kinda funny. People say stuff like 'anyone can make payments on a Porsche, but THAT car has class'.

Anyway, it is a waaay different animal than a C6, you may or may not like it. But get a book on how to buy one, you want a good one, not just any one.

 

Thanks for all the tips everyone. To answer a common question, this car isn't going to be my DD (I have a truck that fills that duty for the most part) but I do plan on driving it a lot in sunny weather, which is why I require A/C. And while I've never driven a C3, I do plan to drive it before I buy, and I have driven lots of old cars so I'm roughly aware of what to expect.

 

Worth coming to Carlisle, PA if you can. Good selection of C's.

I've gone past 4 years and there is typically a good showing of C3's for sale, including the '68's-69's (guessing maybe 20-30 last year). I was looking specifically for a 1969 in very good condition, numbers matching. I bought my 1969 Coupe at Carlisle. Made 2 trips to Carlisle before finding the "right" car. Spent quite a bit of time researching and looking, checking car sites, so I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to buy and what I would have to pay. I love my 1969 Coupe. I paid $23,000 for numbers matching. I'm in the process of documenting numbers now and continue to be impressed with the purchase. Have only found a few minor non OEM things so far: clutch, hoses and clamps, radio. I have the L-46 350 ci / 350 hp, original Rochester Quadrajet, M-21 close ratio, 3.70:1 rearend. It runs great, is fun to drive, cuises about 3200 RPM at 65 mph. A little tough on gas at about 14-15 mpg highway. I'm not very mechanical either and have not been disappointed in my C3 purchase.

I have had the rear wheel bearings replaced. My '69 also has some rust along the front window but it does not leak a drop of water. Was in a downpour in Carlisle last year and the interior was as dry as a bone. No cruise control is kind of a pain. Mine has the AC which is nice but it does draw on the engine and you can hear and feel the pull on the 350 engine when you turn the AC on.

 

When I got my first vette, it pinged a lot, so every other fill-up I would put 2-3 gallons of Cam 2 in my tank, then fill up with Ultra 94 octane. When I did that, I didn't have any pinging. I was a chemical engineer at the time, so I would read geeky stuff about Methyl tert-Butyl Ether, aka MTBE, all the time. It was added in the late '80s (I think, could have been '90/'91) to gasoline because research had shown it increased the fuel's resistance to knocking, AND promoted a more complete burn. Basically, it was like the holy grail of additives in the day. I left that business in '94, and haven't really kept up with it since then.

Today's gas much more often than not contains at least some ethanol. I am not sure what the impact to pre-ignition tendencies is from ethanol, but I am sure it helps to promote a complete burn, being a shorter chain aliphatic if nothing else. This is one of the reasons that I don't bitch much about NJ requiring me to pass emissions, in that I have to pass original spec emissions, but I don't have to use original spec fuel. Last Friday night, I tuned my carburetor using a vacuum gauge and a screwdriver (read, not very scientific or accurate), and tested at 284 ppm hydrocarbons the next day. The standard is 700 ppm for my car. In fact, the Californial LEV (low emission vehicle) standard is 230 ppm for a new car, so my 40 year old big block is almost clean enough to pass. Do I think I am really that handy with a screwdriver? Or do I think I have gotten a little help along the way from my petrochem engineering friends at ExxonMobile?

Anybody want to borrow my magic screwdriver?

 

I think time has fogged your memory. There was no such thing as high octane unleaded back when that car was new. There was leaded gas of all levels, but only low octane unleaded (87). High octane unleaded didn't come along till years later.

 

You and I have had this discussion before, and I disagree totally. In 1980, I got my first car, a '75 Mustang with a 302. I put nothing but high octane unleaded in it (it still ran like crap) from the day I bought it. High octane unleaded was not new then. I clearly remember them digging up the Gulf station where we used to get gas, I don't remember the year, but it was long before I could drive which was 1980. The reason? The Gulf only had two tanks, which when built, were low-octane leaded and high-octane leaded. When the '75s came out, they switched to low-octane leaded and low octane unleaded. They dug the whole place up so they could have three tanks and three pumps, being low-octane leaded, low-octane unleaded and high-octane unleaded. I would guess this was in '76 or '77 because I remember having to drive to Paoli (we lived in Devon) to get the high-octane gas when my Dad first got the '76 Mercury.

 

Wondering if I am losing my mind, I did a quick Google search on the intorduction of high-octane unleaded gasoline. My memory is not perfect, but pretty good. These were dates I found for different companies:

Mobil: November 1978
Shell: April 1979
Gulf: May 1979

I couldn't find anything for Exxon (or Esso, I can't remember when they made that name change around me), but I'll accept that we probably weren't getting high octane for the Mercury right when we bought it, and were making trips to Paoli probably because that was the first station around to have it, which was probably 1978, and that they probably dug up the Gulf station in 1979.

 

Mobil was selling "Super Unleaded" in 1978 and Amacco had their own then too. The used benzine for boost.
All parts of the country by then were adding it at that time.

The midwest has Gasahol effectively E10 around 1976.

Bt 86 or so any leaded was very hard to find.

 

That sounds about right. I don't argue that the cars ran like cr*p, just that they were supposed to run on regular unleaded because that's all there was. Corvettes were no exception and as pointed out many times, if it was designed to run on 87 back then it'll run just fine on 87 today.

 

From memory again (and we have seen that isn't perfect), I think it was 1986 when Getty was the first national chain to announce that they would no longer carry any leaded fuel. I sold my last VW in 1990, and I could still find leaded gas for that, but it was hard by then. I sold my first Corvette in late 1995, and I am sure it was all gone by then.

 

Another attempt at a memory check mostly failed. I did find this on Wikipedia (meaning, low quality source):

Which supports my recollection that it was all gone by late 1995, since it became illegal to sell it Jan 1 1996. I couldn't find anything about Getty discontinuing it in '86 though.