Please bear with the manifesto, folks... I guess I am eager over finally getting my hands dirty, but anxious with the challenges ahead.

Some of you guys have helped advise me about getting started (or whether I should) on my other thread, and I appreciate the help there. I have already set out to get the engine back up by putting some Marvel's Mystery Oil into the piston chamber to see if it can be turned by hand next week for further Progress analysis, which was an adventure in itself.

Since I have a week to wait while the oil works its way into the system, I made myself useful by tearing out the interior. The car sat (covered) in a parking lot for 2 years and in a garage (covered) another 2 in an undisturbed condition. Moisture turned the interior into a petri dish for mold and other loveliness, so I first hit the surfaces with 409 and have given the car a week to breathe with tops/windows down for the week. I then pulled the ripped, dirty seats, the rusting seat belts, and the atrocious carpeting from the cabin (leaving the coupe rear in tact for now).

Armed with flights of fancy for a quick and dirty $700 makeover, I found my little interior ideas plain delusional. Ignoring the shipping for the core and the finished product alone, a single seat threatens to be over $1,000-$1500 on someone else's labor, and over $500 done with my own blood sweat and tears. Carpet is priced as expected, but adding factory underlay and heat shield and there is another grand! We won't even talk about those lovely interior panels/caps today.

Seeing how the mechanics of the car are going to require something to get it up and running smooth on its own power, and hundreds will be needed for the electrical work to approach safe (legal) operation, there is no way I can divert that much into the interior at this time. That brings me to this crossroad, however. My ambition is to get the car up and running as a fairly clean driver that I can enjoy for a while before deciding whether to invest serious money straightening out or going with another plan. This means that I have to decide between doing one project at a time with an NCRS correctness of sorts to do the job right the first time, or doing a few quick and dirty tasks which will cost more in the long run, but at least I get use and enjoyment now while I make up my mind.

I think you guys are starting to get where I am going, but here is what I am thinking now...

Roxy (my 68 coupe) was born Silverstone Silver over Gunmetal. She is now fiery red over black. The paint is unprofessional enough that I will want a repaint some day but it is fresh and passable enough to put towards the bottom of my to-do list for many years. If I restore the car, I would like to do so in the spirit of thorough authenticity, restoring her to her original finish. However, doing it exactly right, means replacing the panels that were painted over, and going with gunmetal carpet/seats that IMHO would look awful with an orange-hued red. All of this suggests going cheap now and going expensive on the interior many years down the line

On the other hand, I am wondering how cheap I should really get. For example, The pulled carpet (installed by a real cheap owner) has nothing between it and the floorboards. When I drove this car the whopping 4 days I could, I got the impression I was in an adult's go-cart rather than piloting the apex of American engineering. The cabin stunk of gasoline (attributable to the sidepipes), Everything rattled (attributable to El Cheapo not adding all the parts), and the ride in the summer was miserable between the non-ventilation and the lack of any heat barrier underneath. So that suggests a heat shield and some noise barrier. the other thing is that I am not very comfortable with the disgusting seat foam and (formerly) mold-encrusted, torn vinyl of seats in their current condition.

If there is a way to ensure all the nasties in/on the seat (along with musty scent) can be eliminated, I am amenable to throwing a cover on the seats and dealing with it for a few years. If I have to resign to the fact that seats must be restored/replaced, I am wondering if I should go gunmetal now with cloth covers so I only spend money right one time, or If I should go black and spend a second time.

Finally, I am fine buying black carpet and replacing that later in gunmetal, but I need to figure out what MUST be done for function. Hell or high water, a heat barrier goes in, and I am amenable to anybody's suggestions on the best one of those. After that, I need to determine if I should go poor and buy the expensive "correct" underlay, or buy one of the economy versions and replace later, or if I should just go carpet and heatshield for now.


So, (thanks for bearing with me) the questions:

Seats: de funk and cover, restore myself, or replace now?

Heat shield: what is the best one out there to insulate the cockpit?

Underlay: Right the first time, practical substitution on my budget, or do without until I can do it right?

 

Ok. Here is my probably not the majority opinion.
Are you sure that this is the car that you want to make a financial and muti-year commitment too.
If the answer is yes, here goes;
I would start the resto process and do it the way I wanted the final finished dream car to be.
Do one thing at a time and do it correctly the first time.
Why do the same thing twice?
It would be wiser money wise to do it right the first time instead of going cheap and paying more in the future plus what you spent for the cheapo fix.
Personaly I would rather not make a minimal repair just t get it goig.
In the long run you will get more enjoyment if done correctly.
i would sacrifice the short term of riding now even if it meant that it would not be on the road for quite some time.
I speak from personal experience. I have done the cheapo fix with dreams of having a really nice toy in the future. It did not matter what the toy was. I never followed thru with the final upgrades. So I was left with something that I had put some money and time in and lost interest because I had it for so long and would basically have to start again to make it nice.

 

It will run and drive with nothing more than a bare seat frame bolted to the floor and a lawn chair slipcover for padding. I missed the post in which you describe the woe which precipitated the MMO marinade, but suspect repairing that will drain the wallet some. Then you speak of electrical gremlins which make the car a moving violation in the making.

Methinks you need to step back a bit, pour an adult beverage and get your family budget on the kitchen table to do some serious thinking. Number one concern for "enjoying" your car is that it function well enough not to leave you stranded miles from home every third trip out, and not net you a citation from every traffic cop in your county. Concentrate on ONE issue at a time, in order of what's required to drive it at all. Then and only then will you be able to venture forth far enough to worry about keeping the seat springs from poking you in the butt, or getting asthma breathing the dust from disintegrating seat foam.

 

I thought the mechanical/electric priorities were implicit, but perhaps i should have clarified.

The car must first run, then it must operate legally. Interior is a side project that gets attention when other issues are addressed, or there remain no other productive use of my free time. If it makes sense to do it perfectly (when funds permit) i can drive the vehicle on a one of those covered petri dishes over a bare floor. Im just considering options for when the opportunity arises.

 

In that case I agree with the post above which advises doing this once only. Even if you go to a local carpet store and cut a remnant yourself, then buy one of those eBay $100 starting bid cover kits and dip the foam in a bleach bath, and get your $700 makeover you'll end up doing it all again when you go "correct". Installing a complete interior is a large enough job to make me not want to have to do it twice.

 

I think to restore a 68 to NCRS top flight (tm) specs you either need to be very wealthy or insane, or both.

See those 2 blue bigblock 68s? The near one is a 435 hp car restored to perfection. The owner had it restored. I have no idea how much he has in it.. but I can guess, something more than $80k would be my guess.

The other blue 68 is my L-36, and someone other than me restored it as a driver in the late 80s. I have many personal touches in the car, for example home depot pipe insulation used to seal the radiator, gold spraypaint wiper can, things like that, where $$ were an issue.

If you are not rich, trying to restore your 68 for NCRS judging will likely break you.







FUNCTION OVER FORM

 

I would not spend a dime on the interior yet...
On the previous post you had you had some pics. of frame troubles. If you have frame and birdcage troubles they should be addressed first and along the way the brake lines and general safety items need to be looked at and fixed. There have been a few pictures on here of frames falling apart when the body was removed where the birdcage was holding things together.

I agree with the other people who have posted before me you only want to do the job one time and do it as good as possible. If you patch it up I am afraid you won't get anything but a bad taste in your mouth.

If you want update your profile with location and maybe someone would be willing to stop by and look the car over and get you a better idea of what is ahead.

I am not trying to discourage you or throw rocks so please don't get upset about the words above. Hopefully it may save you some time and quite a bit of money down the road.

 

Wills, I never get upset with friendly advice, regardless of what it is.

I am just trying to strike a balance between a 2 year plan of getting the car running and enjoying it with a (possible) 10 year plan to restore the car. Thus, it makes a lot of sense for certain repairs to be painstaking but thorough, so that they are addressed once, such as any birdcage rust. However, on the other side, some patch plans make more sense... for example... it may take 300-2,000 to get my engine from dormancy to a well-balanced growl, but it is an unoriginal (to the car) 454. Should I consider $900 a waste of money to get the engine up and running, when instead I should be saving that $10k+ for the proper restored 427, leaving the car immobile for 2-4 more years in the garage? Clearly, that is one example where it would be foolish to make it perfectly right the first time.

So, with respect to the interior, I am figuring out the prudent balance between "2-year plan" needs and "10-year plan" needs.

 

Safely drivable first. Pretty and restored after that.

It's much easier and more pleasurable to work on a car you can drive.

Don't fret carpet padding. When the time comes, buy a set with factory pads already installed.

FREEBIE: Double all time estimates. Triple all cost estimates.

 

I gather you don't have the original engine? If not I am wondering if you really want to spend the $$ for NCRS restoration. Going with a 'correct' but non original 427 may fly to some degree with NCRS judging but may not do well when time comes to sell. The collectors are paying big $ for originals, they'd probably give you a hard time about the motor if they'd be interested at all.

I admire NCRS level restorations but don't have deep pockets to pay for them. If this is what you're after, not thinking about resale, be aware it's a very expensive and time consuming endeavor, you'd be doing it for your own satisfaction.

I agree with the others, best to make sure you have a solid foundation to work from before becoming involved with cosmetics, etc. If the frame is shaky, you'll probably need to pull the body off. I'd restore the chassis while it's apart. Birdcage rust can be VERY expensive to fix, you should look very carefully at yours, see what it needs and get estimates if you have to farm work out. Once the frame and birdcage are solid, make a decision as to where you want to go with it, NCRS or very nice driver. Take your time and do it right which ever way you go. The small stuff, rattles, creaks, reliability issues, etc, will detract from your enjoyment if they're not taken care of. Doesn't mean it has to be NCRS level restored, just tightened, cleaned up... A non NCRS refurbish gives you freedom to choose colors you like and equip it however you want.

I tore my 70 down many years ago for similar reasons. Not looking for NCRS level restoration. More a very nice weekend driver. The rattles, leaks and other issues made it less enjoyable than it could have been. I've still got a ways to go but taking care of popped rivets, broken or missing parts, having the padding, trim, carpets and so on installed made it much more pleasant to drive.

 

I think that's the first problem with any such purchase: buying something one enjoys with the next buyer in mind. In that case, it seems like a C3 purchase in general is a fool's purchase (or perhaps ground floor speculation) as the real money these days seems to be in the older models. A man buys X, babies it for years and gets a 175% return on it 30 years later because it X is a ho-hum model. A man buys Y thirdhand in beater condition puts $5,000 into initial repair and suddenly the next Gone in 60 Seconds/Vanishing Point/Dukes of Hazard gives him a clear 2,000% return on his investment. Who can say what will happen, but going into a project for profit is something a guy like me has no delusions about.

Someone here is selling a beautiful, rare LT-1 with air. Talk about insanity for a guy like me. Imagine having that car and being terrified to drive it for fear of other motorists or simple milage/parts degradation. I have had my 68 sitting untouched under a cover for years driving me crazy. I couldn't imagine paying $$$$$ for the same torture. Cars like that belong to those who can enjoy doing nothing with them, those who can trash a resale without a care for the sheer enjoyment, or they have so much money that other cars distract them. None of those scenarios work for a person like me.

I find $$$$$$$$$ poured into a car I can drive and enjoy the whole time a far better investment for my return, resale be damned. Besides, I imagine there is a clean drivers market, and who knows what movie comes out or what phallically-challenged Barret Jackson auctioneers might boost the the bar (and ego alike) causing the the whole model year to skyrocket the value?

As for me, I don't like alot of the shortcomings that accompany the hand I have been dealt, but today I find a lot of enjoyment with the possibilities. Who knows if the tank sticker may exist/be unearthed in legible condition? There's an opportunity to restore the car to completion (or at least correctness). Then again, a correct L-88 clone that can actually be driven has its own appeal as well. Worth is a very subjective thing that varies with/within the individual.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you for the most part. I was just stating what I often hear about resale values... I have a 70 coupe with a big block which I'm working on bringing up to a very nice weekend driver level. I can't afford an NCRS restoration nor would I want to be too concerned with driving it on weekends, fear of chipping paint, etc. I personally admire a 'correct' restoration as much as an 'original'. All the same to me. So if you want to go for the 427 I say have at it, could be fun. 454 works for me as well, pretty much looks the same..

The C2's have traditionally been the big $$ Corvettes but many of the early C3's seem to be doing quite well lately. They could go for some good money in the future.

 

The real trick with a 68 is to forget resale value and make that lifetime commitment to "marry" the car. I've had mine for 32 years now and am currently doing the interior. Mine is a kinda rough driver... it could be more... it might yet be more... but resale value is NOT a consideration in anything I do to it. Only my "wishes" and "wallet" are issues.

-W

 

Never thought of that one. Nice job.

 

"NCRS correct" and "driver" are not descriptions I would give to one car at the same time. In my opinion, you should choose which one you want or get a second car.

 

New carpet: $260. Reflectix, alum foil tape, 3Mspray glue: $60. Cost for new carpet and insulation if you do the work....$320. Cost if you have a "restorer" do that work....$1000+.

Moral: If you do the work and buy parts wisely, you can get it done for reasonable money. If you have someone else restore your car, you can go broke quick.

If you don't want to DIY, you'd better have 'deep pockets'.