1. copper radiator
2. BB hood, and 427 letters
3. Rear sway bar, yes a certain thinkness
4. Caps on your Ujoints at the yokes
5. Larger front sway bar, yes a certain thickness
6. heavier front spring with a certain label attached
7. Wider Radiator Support
8. Console engine tag that says 427
9. Tachometer redline
10. emmissions sticker behind your master cylinder
11. fuel line differences
12. transistor ignition ( some BB's did not have it though)
13. testamony from previous owners.
14. Fan Shroud.
15. Documentation, tank sticker, invoice, window sticker.. etc...

all of the above can be faked and added to make the car look like it was originally a BB car.

your NCRS judging guide will elaborate..

 

It will never be a numbers-matching big block again, unless you go to the trouble of getting a properly part numbered 427 block that has the appropriate casting date, then have the pad decked while replicating the original style broach marks and then restamping it.

In that case, you will have a numbers-matching fake big block.

Otherwise, its an NOM and the fact it USED to be a big block means nothing if you put in another big block.

 

All kinds of wrong info today.

 

Sorry, got to disagree.

If the owner replaces the big block with another big block, it's STILL a big block. What else is it going to be, a small block? A NOM block? True, not original or numbers matching but that doesn't change the fact it's a big block.

If the owner wants to go to the trouble of finding a 'correct' block, proper casting numbers and date code, it will fly with minor deductions under NCRS judging. It's a restoration. Doesn't need to be a restamp unless the owner wishes to pass it off as original. In that case, yes, a fake, fraud.

The assertion "it will never be... bla bla bla..." is the purists point of view. Put an 'original' big block Corvette beside a so called 'fake' (actually one which has had the block replaced) side by side, outside of the collectors circle nobody will give a damn. They'll see them as the same car. Bet they'll drive the same as well.

Collector value is another matter.

 

Hey

Thanks for all the advice. Not looking to make a fake Numbers matching car. But it would be nice to know if I did put a Big Block in that it was " the correct engine size for that car " plus a little less parts to change while dropping her in.

Thinking it could possibly have been originally a BB car.

Rear sway bar is thinner than the front. Rad is copper (but wouldnt count that yet, could have been replaced with the front clip)

7 Leaf Rear Spring.

Wont see the car for a few days to check the rest

Should the front springs be thicker on the BB car?

 

So, using this logic, every C3 from '68 to '74 is potentially a big block car.

 

I'm not sure about the copper rad. My small block '69 still has the original copper radiator, though it's been recored.

 

Not what I said.

I said if it was built with a big block and had the block replaced, it's STILL a big block. True, it's no longer original, but it may still be configured exactly as it left the factory. The ONLY difference is the value to a collector who demands the 'original' block won't be there. It's then a NOM.

If an owner wants to convert a small block to a big block, another matter, then sure, they can replicate a factory big block which would be identical to an 'original' with exception of numbers. The two cars would look and run exactly alike.

The issue is the assertion that once a car with option code LS5 or LS6 has had the block replaced it can never be an LS5/6 again. This makes no sense. The LS5 or LS6 option code never stated a matching number was part of the package. Even the NCRS, an organization which people bash for being pure accepts a 'restoration', correct block with only a minor deduction.

The value of the vehicle is another matter, I'm not disputing that once the block is replaced, the collector value disappears.

 

This is true if the original documentation doesn't exist. There's no way to prove it one way or the other.

But a deduction none the less, because it's not correct and there's no way of knowing what it really was.

 

The LS5 used an expansion tank in '70. From recollection (read, high probability it could be wrong), the L-36 used one in '69 as well. It was different than the small block tank though IIRC.

 

Would have been the correct info if it was a '72-'74, so there! *sticks out tongue*


Scott

 

Both small blocks and big blocks used copper radiators in 69. 69-72 small blocks with auto and/or air conditioning, came with a copper rad, as did all big blocks. Only manual trans, no AC 68-72's used the aluminum radiator.

The radiators (and their core supports) can be identified by their width. The aluminum, manual trans SB radiator is 19" wide, and has no coolant tanks on it's ends and no provision for a cap. The SB auto or AC radiator has a 26" wide core, while the BB radiator has a 27.5" wide core. Both of the copper rads have coolant tanks as part of the radiator. Each of the 3 different radiators, have their own unique core support. The openings in the support match the core width, 19", 26" and 27.5".

Your talking about the long round copper expansion tank that was tucked up in the right inner fender. It was my thinking that it was only used with 69-72 air conditioned big blocks?

 

Yes, without proof we can't be sure the car wasn't given an upgrade to increase it's value. This is true of many so called 'numbers match' as well. I'd bet the majority do not have original documentation either. There have been cases of 'numbers match' which were proven to be frauds as well.

Two different arguments here. Was it originally a (-- fill in the RPO --)?
The fact the original block isn't there doesn't prove it never was built as ---- nor does a car with what is thought to be 'numbers match' prove it ever was. It comes down to a best guess based on available information, documentation. If there's sufficient evidence, tank sticker, POP, dealer invoice, etc, it's still a (-- fill in the RPO --) which has had a major component replaced. Won't fly as original so it's unlikely to get the premium price when sold.

Other argument is what constitutes (-- fill in the RPO --)? The factory assembly manual clearly states what parts make up this option. It makes no sense to declare it's not (RPO) if ALL the correct parts are there. May be a clone, or may not be.

Not as I understand their rules. If a car is found to be a clone it takes a severe hit. Pretty sure the owner gets kicked out and isn't allowed to participate in future events. I'm not a NCRS member, going by prior conversations on this matter. The NCRS recognizes the block or other major components may have been replaced. The deduction is for an irregular stamp pad. This does not make the car any less 'correct' though not 'original'. I believe you are interchanging the concepts of 'original' with 'correct'.

If we're talking about collector value, that's another matter. The collector market requires original parts where serial numbers are involved. I'm not disputing this at all.

 

No sense in having a big-block conversation without a pic!
I installed this 396 in my 1969 Camaro..........no it wasnt an original big-block but I wanted one, so I made one!

 

I've had the same question about mine, the current BB is not original to the car.
For awhile, I just figured that they had replaced a small block.
But the preponderance of evidence says that it was on original BB.
The fuel supply without a return line is when I decided that it had been a an original BB car.
Leave me out of the "whether it matters" debate, it mattered to me.
But, tell me if I'm wrong here, all small block cars had a fuel return line in 69; no big block cars were so equipped.

 

The use of a return line depended upon the carb used, not big block vs small block.

Cars equiped with a Holley carb did not have a return line. Those with the Q-jet did have a return line.

So the high performance engines, small block and big block, did not have a return line.

 

My mistake. Missed it by three years.

 

in 69, there were no holley small blocks, in 70 yes ( LT-1 ).
so in 69, no return line = holley carbs = big block

but the opposite may not be true.. the 427-390 was a quadrajet.. so dual fuel lines could be a big block, but a single fuel line cannot be a small block.. Again.. 69.. per the OP's question..

 

Tach used in 1969:

Redline
5300 350/300
5600 427/390, 427/400
6000 350/350
6500 350/370(LT1), 427/435, 427/430 (L88 & ZL1)

So what tach is in the car?

 

In the case of a 1969 the VIN will not tell you the engine size, however a later year big block such as a 1972-74 (Big Block Years) the VIN will tell you the engine size. Just an FYI because this was stated prior to the year being posted on the thread.....