I'm curious to hear what you guys think about points. Personally, I can't see any reason to go to electronic. They work great as long as you check on them once in a while.

 

Even back in the 70's I ran points in my camaro. You need to replace them occasionally but I was never left stranded. I may put a electronic conversion in the distributor of my 72, haven't made that decision yet.

 

I got rid of them decades ago but typically it would be part of a complete ignition system upgrade. Replace the points with electronics, recurve the distributor, get a MSD or other ignition box, a matching coil for the box and high performance plug wire set.

 

I like knowing that if the car won't start - its because of something mechanical that I can fix with a 9/16 inch wrench and screw driver. (and an allen wrench...) I once had a Mallory ignition module that went dead on a Pontiac GTO, and I swore I'd never replace points again.

 

Yea I like being able to fix stuff with a screwdriver too. But, that said, I was on the side of the road many times fixing the points, carried spares and tools to do just exactly that. A couple million miles later I have Never been on the side of the road fixing a GM HEI system, never.
Last points car I had was a 69 Chevelle SS, converted it to Dual point in 76 because that was the thing to do with an Accell Supercoil. Then I got a conversion kit and went electronic and never looked back. Early and mid 70's it was common to have the electrinics die. Not so much anymore, it happens, but a Lot of miles driven between failures.

 

In this day and age, there's really no reason to deal with points anymore.

It's not that they're such a giant hassle, because they're not, but in the face of all of the things I deal with day to day, I can't be bothered anymore, but that's just me.

I'm on a quest to eliminate all needless grief from my life.

I wonder how long 'til the car is gone and I'm single again.

 

Everybody and his brother will probably tell me that I'm crazy. But, for the guys who know, including Big Joe Sherman on the SpeedTalk Forum, Lars on this Forum, and 427 Hotrod on this Forum, will tell you that an electronic ignition system will NOT make any more power than a points ignition. It seems that most people use electronic ignition systems just because everybody else is using them.

I built my 540ci BBC as an old school throw back. So, I used a brand new billet Mallory “dual point” distributor. BTW, it has the best, easiest and largest mechanical advance adjustability of any distributor I've come across. I'm not afraid of a little bit of occasional points maintenance. And the best thing about them is that they won't do any weird stuff, and they won't leave you stranded along side the road.

And getting stranded by an electronic ignition system has happened to people I know, to people I’ve talked to, and to people I’ve just read about, who use MSD and other electronic ignition brands. It happens more often than you might think. In fact one buddy of mine kept getting repeatedly stranded by his electronic ignition system. And he finally went back to points and never had an issue again. So, I run points because there is no reason not to, and to avoid the dreaded flatbed ride home.

With an old school points ignition system, my 540 Street/Strip motor made the following numbers on the dyno:

Peak hp = 781 at 6,300 rpm
Peak torque = 710 at 4,800 rpm

Ave hp between 4000 and 6700 = 681
Ave torque between 4000 and 6700 = 670

Ave hp between 5700 and 6700 = 764
Ave torque between 5700 and 6700 = 649

On top of all that, the motor starts immediately, and the throttle response is surprisingly crisp and quick. So, points work just fine for me, even in the 21st century.

 

It won't be me. You're 100% correct that eliminating points will not make any difference in performance, nor will a bazillion volt zoomy-ultra-blaster coil.

 

But wont the available performance not deteriorate over time with electronics while it will with points?

"The disadvantage of the mechanical system is the use of breaker points to interrupt the low-voltage high-current through the primary winding of the coil; the points are subject to mechanical wear where they ride the cam to open and shut, as well as oxidation and burning at the contact surfaces from the constant sparking. They require regular adjustment to compensate for wear, and the opening of the contact breakers, which is responsible for spark timing, is subject to mechanical variations.

In addition, the spark voltage is also dependent on contact effectiveness, and poor sparking can lead to lower engine efficiency. A mechanical contact breaker system cannot control an average ignition current of more than about 3 A while still giving a reasonable service life, and this may limit the power of the spark and ultimate engine speed."

 

Well most who have had a problem with electronic stuff has usually been after market. people are right there is no power difference with the systems out there. The real difference comes to be that points degrade much faster than any HEI system, like an HEI doesn't degrade other than cap and rotor stuff really. Keep it all in good condition and they all will perform just fine for you take your pick. One thing I would note here is all the hype about this coil and that coil and such is that a spark plug needs roughly 5KV to fire and no matter how much your coil has the plug only fires at 5KV doesn't matter how much potential it has 5KV is what was used.

 

Concerning that 5K statement, why did GM install TI ignition in high peformance big blocks and the LT-1 and used coils that had higher voltage outputs than the standard coil? It would appear that the standard points/coil did not produce enough voltage at high engine speeds.

http://www.tispecialty.com/articles/article4.htm

 

Lower coil voltage is required at high RPM than low.

 

If I think back to "those days" correctly, a tune-up was advised at about 20,000 miles. I drive my 1974 about 1,500 miles a year. So I will need new points/condensor in about 13 years.

I do use the good Echlin set from NAPA (I forget the numbers) and do a dwell adjust each spring. Spare set in the back compartment for insurance. Millions of cars used that setup.

I agree that it would not hurt to switch to a HEI tch-drive unit but I have not found a compelling reason to do so.

 

I still run points In my cars even my XKE if you lube the rubbing block they will last 20,000 miles. If they close up an allen wrench and a matchbook cover for a feeler gauge will get you home.
Mark

 

For someone using the car 2000-4000 miles per year and not needing to do any high RPM [6000 & higher] activities, a good set of points and condenser will perform just as well as an electronic ignition set...and they will let you know ahead of when they begin to wear/fail.

Echlin points & condenser from NAPA have worked well for me (and they were recommeded by Lars when he rebuilt my dizzy).

 

So why would GM put in an ignition system on their high performance engines that generated a higher coil voltage?

 

Answer: Because high-performance engines which reached higher RPM's [frequently] had more reliable performance with electronic ignitions. Until 1974, the TI system was optional or only available on hi-perf Chevy engines. Competition, public demand, and longer term consistency of engine performance and emission control forced the HEI design change. But, that doesn't mean that good quality points, maintained properly, will not perform just as well as HEI on a non-high performance engine.

 

my classic motorcycle has a cdi ignition and is giving me fits right now.. boy I wish I had points right now..

on the other hand, I did have a condenser go bad once in my car about 15 years ago and I had to sputter and backfire and limp back home.. it would start but would not go over 1200 rpm.

i vote for points unless you take your car above the point floating point.. which I never do...

 

The coil doesn't determine the coil voltage. The voltage is determined by the plug gap, cylinder pressure, plug temperature, plug polarity, etc. In other words, it's what's happening in the cylinder that determines the coil (secondary) voltage.

The TI coil was a low inductance (winding) coil. This allows the coil to charge up (with energy, not voltage) quicker so that more energy (not voltage) is available to fire fouled plugs at high RPM.

 

gee, where's that old buggy whip of mine? It's never let me down...not like those new fangled aut-o-mo-bilees...