Damaged VIN tag
04-10-2012, 11:51 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
04-11-2012, 01:39 AM
#22
Race Director
You can check these laws:
18 U.S.C §§ 511, 512, and 2321
States do provide for installation of the rivets usually by the state police but I have never heard of them reinstalling an original vin, only a state issued bin.
Your original vin tag, no matter how bad a shape, is still the best option. Hope you have bunches of other documentation.
I wonder if this guy knows this is illegal.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...-for-VIN-plate
18 U.S.C §§ 511, 512, and 2321
After October 25, 1984, the falsification or removal of any VIN required by the DOT on a motor vehicle is a federal crime under 18 U.S.C. § 511. Motor vehicles which have had their DOT required VINs falsified or removed after October 24, 1984, are subject to seizure and forfeiture under 18 U.S.C. § 512. Persons trafficking in motor vehicles with DOT required VINs that have been falsified or removed after October 24, 1984, are subject to prosecution under 18 U.S.C. § 2321. See 130 Cong.Rec. S13584 (daily ed. October 4, 1984). See also H.R.Rep. No. 1456 on H.R. 4178, 96th Congress, 2d Sess. 25-26 (1980); 125 Cong.Rec. 12244 (1979).
Your original vin tag, no matter how bad a shape, is still the best option. Hope you have bunches of other documentation.
I wonder if this guy knows this is illegal.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...-for-VIN-plate
Classic Car Restoration - Rosette Rivets for VIN plate
I have 50 OEM Rosette Rivets that were used by American Auto Manufacturers, from the 50's to the 90's to attach the VIN plates to the dash/firewall. Any quality restoration will need these to reattach the VIN plate after repairs are completed.
Aftermarket reproduction rivets sell for as much as $30 per rivet. I had these on eBay and they were selling like crazy, until they pulled my ad due to their typical liberal BS rules.
These are New Old Stock, factory original rivets. They are called Rosette Rivets, because they have a flower pedal shape to them, while regular rivets are round. They are semi-gloss black finished stainless steel and were only used for VIN plates.
What is also cool about this package, is that they came on a belt for a semi-auto belt fed rivet gun. Simply insert the tip of the gun in the hole and pull the trigger. It set the rivet and cycled the next rivet into the bore for the next hole. Like a SAW or a BMG
Windham-20120114-00007.jpg
If you, or someone you know, is into restorations, this is a very cool and impossible item to find.
I will sell these for: $25 each; $45 a pair; $80 for four; or the whole roll of 50 for $750.
I will accept PayPal (discrete), or face to face in So. NH, Burlington, MA area, or somewhere in between.
PM me for more info.
I have 50 OEM Rosette Rivets that were used by American Auto Manufacturers, from the 50's to the 90's to attach the VIN plates to the dash/firewall. Any quality restoration will need these to reattach the VIN plate after repairs are completed.
Aftermarket reproduction rivets sell for as much as $30 per rivet. I had these on eBay and they were selling like crazy, until they pulled my ad due to their typical liberal BS rules.
These are New Old Stock, factory original rivets. They are called Rosette Rivets, because they have a flower pedal shape to them, while regular rivets are round. They are semi-gloss black finished stainless steel and were only used for VIN plates.
What is also cool about this package, is that they came on a belt for a semi-auto belt fed rivet gun. Simply insert the tip of the gun in the hole and pull the trigger. It set the rivet and cycled the next rivet into the bore for the next hole. Like a SAW or a BMG
Windham-20120114-00007.jpg
If you, or someone you know, is into restorations, this is a very cool and impossible item to find.
I will sell these for: $25 each; $45 a pair; $80 for four; or the whole roll of 50 for $750.
I will accept PayPal (discrete), or face to face in So. NH, Burlington, MA area, or somewhere in between.
PM me for more info.
04-11-2012, 09:27 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
[QUOTE=noonie;1580524274]You can check these laws:
18 U.S.C §§ 511, 512, and 2321
States do provide for installation of the rivets usually by the state police but I have never heard of them reinstalling an original vin, only a state issued bin.
Your original vin tag, no matter how bad a shape, is still the best option. Hope you have bunches of other documentation.
I wonder if this guy knows this is illegal.
Wow that's just scary.......can I be arrested for posting on this thread?
18 U.S.C §§ 511, 512, and 2321
States do provide for installation of the rivets usually by the state police but I have never heard of them reinstalling an original vin, only a state issued bin.
Your original vin tag, no matter how bad a shape, is still the best option. Hope you have bunches of other documentation.
I wonder if this guy knows this is illegal.
Wow that's just scary.......can I be arrested for posting on this thread?
04-11-2012, 09:34 AM
#24
Team Owner
Ignorance of the law is no excuse....but it doesn't normally land you in jail if there is no intent to perform a criminal act.
Just call the dang BMV.
Just call the dang BMV.
04-11-2012, 09:47 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
DMV would just check the frame VIN stampings. If the frame VIN stamp didn't match the body VIN tag, then I think you would have a problem.
04-11-2012, 09:49 AM
#26
Instructor
I think that the law just makes it too tough for the honest person. There needs to a procedure in place to do this. Like have the DMV or State Police inspect the tag before it is removed, take the number, give you a source for the restoration tag and the rivets, you order the stuff, the company verifies the vin with State Police or DMV, they come down watch it being installed and walk away with the old one to be destroyed. I know it seems like a long process but i think most people would would rather do it the legal way. They are just not offering us an option that's palatable. Anyway i don't know this person but after a quick search i was able to locate some [URL="http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/156352-Classic-Car-Restoration-Rosette-Rivets-for-VIN-plate"]rivets
04-11-2012, 10:54 AM
#27
Drifting
Go ahead,contact your friendly,helpful department of whatever.You will get as many different answers as there are seconds in a day.The only thing they are good at is filling their days covering their worthless butts to keep their jobs...
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Crider (10-04-2022)
04-11-2012, 12:19 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
04-11-2012, 12:39 PM
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
Wow, thread gone wild. Thank you all for the advice, the legalese, etc.
I will not be looking to dig a deeper hole, deal with any illegal rosette rivets or any such headaches. I don't need the problem.
I have a lot of money, time, and blood invested in this restoration. It has been a great journey; one I don't wish to complicate further.
Obviously I don't want to devalue a car I've worked so hard on, but it looks to me that the DMV is the only option right now. It'll have to be tomorrow though, my 12 year old has baseball practice, which is far more improtant to me than trying to fix my own mistake.
Truth be told, that part of the birdcage was so bad, it had to be replaced. I had no choice but remove the VIN tag. And now it seems I have no choice but devalue my car.
I apologize for the quandry and thank you for your input.
I will not be looking to dig a deeper hole, deal with any illegal rosette rivets or any such headaches. I don't need the problem.
I have a lot of money, time, and blood invested in this restoration. It has been a great journey; one I don't wish to complicate further.
Obviously I don't want to devalue a car I've worked so hard on, but it looks to me that the DMV is the only option right now. It'll have to be tomorrow though, my 12 year old has baseball practice, which is far more improtant to me than trying to fix my own mistake.
Truth be told, that part of the birdcage was so bad, it had to be replaced. I had no choice but remove the VIN tag. And now it seems I have no choice but devalue my car.
I apologize for the quandry and thank you for your input.
04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
There was a guy on EBAY that sold the pop rivets that were needed to look official. Obviously he is no longer able to sell them. This is one reason there are so many fakes out there. You could find a wrecked car, heist the VIN tag a put it on a different car. In fact, the ELEANOR clone people got busted doing the same thing.
HAHA, just sawa few posts up about the guy on EBAY. And there he is.
HAHA, just sawa few posts up about the guy on EBAY. And there he is.
04-11-2012, 01:08 PM
#31
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2003
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The kicker to me is, people are faking VIN tags everyday on legal cars ( perhaps not all are legal )
But on restorations and like I said in my first post about street rods,
People do this...they break the law to get what they want, I even saw in this thread it was in a back door way suggested to the OP to break the law and do it,
I just do not understand why the DMV will not allow approved replacement factory look VIN tags for people proving they have a legal car and want it restored 100% factory...the DMV could tack a fee on this and isn't that what they are really all about?
But on restorations and like I said in my first post about street rods,
People do this...they break the law to get what they want, I even saw in this thread it was in a back door way suggested to the OP to break the law and do it,
I just do not understand why the DMV will not allow approved replacement factory look VIN tags for people proving they have a legal car and want it restored 100% factory...the DMV could tack a fee on this and isn't that what they are really all about?
04-11-2012, 03:03 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
Wow, thread gone wild. Thank you all for the advice, the legalese, etc.
I will not be looking to dig a deeper hole, deal with any illegal rosette rivets or any such headaches. I don't need the problem.
I have a lot of money, time, and blood invested in this restoration. It has been a great journey; one I don't wish to complicate further.
Obviously I don't want to devalue a car I've worked so hard on, but it looks to me that the DMV is the only option right now. It'll have to be tomorrow though, my 12 year old has baseball practice, which is far more improtant to me than trying to fix my own mistake.
Truth be told, that part of the birdcage was so bad, it had to be replaced. I had no choice but remove the VIN tag. And now it seems I have no choice but devalue my car.
I apologize for the quandry and thank you for your input.
I will not be looking to dig a deeper hole, deal with any illegal rosette rivets or any such headaches. I don't need the problem.
I have a lot of money, time, and blood invested in this restoration. It has been a great journey; one I don't wish to complicate further.
Obviously I don't want to devalue a car I've worked so hard on, but it looks to me that the DMV is the only option right now. It'll have to be tomorrow though, my 12 year old has baseball practice, which is far more improtant to me than trying to fix my own mistake.
Truth be told, that part of the birdcage was so bad, it had to be replaced. I had no choice but remove the VIN tag. And now it seems I have no choice but devalue my car.
I apologize for the quandry and thank you for your input.
heck, you can't ride the papers! "You like it, here's my price".........You have done an outstanding job and if you ever decide to sell her........I think the tag will be of little or no consequence. Plus you have all the documentation.........
04-11-2012, 05:49 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Wow! lots of different opinions and maybe none wrong also but which way does one go? First is that in most states it is illegal to remove the vin plate for any reason, which means you are already in an illegal position.
If you buy a really good repo with the correct numbers on it get the correct looking rivets your good to go. If done like this what would anyone one be looking at to say something is not right? Your frame numbers and ownership papers numbers all add up, no indicators to anyone that there is a problem here cause there isn't one. Just my opinion here. 
If you buy a really good repo with the correct numbers on it get the correct looking rivets your good to go. If done like this what would anyone one be looking at to say something is not right? Your frame numbers and ownership papers numbers all add up, no indicators to anyone that there is a problem here cause there isn't one. Just my opinion here.
04-11-2012, 06:35 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
I would start with making phone calls to the DMV. Nobody there knows who you are so that should keep them from confiscating you and your car. Maybe, just maybe after a couple of calls to different departments, you might get the same answer twice and know more of which way to go. Good Luck.
10-01-2022, 02:26 PM
#35
1st Gear
Member Since: Oct 2022
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Maybe. But my point is that like it or not people DO reproduce them. And some are so good you will NEVER know the difference. Even if it is a car with those fancy rosette rivets they are available.
And again i am just being a devil's advocate here but what is the harm in replacing a vin tag with one that has the same info on it? I mean you are not attempting to defraud just to restore.
Yes it may be illegal but you are kidding yourself if you say it isnt done and more common than many NCRS people would have you believe. People have gotten damn good at reproducing them. Just like head stamps. Sure there are some half assed ones but people have gotten very good at forgeries
And again i am just being a devil's advocate here but what is the harm in replacing a vin tag with one that has the same info on it? I mean you are not attempting to defraud just to restore.
Yes it may be illegal but you are kidding yourself if you say it isnt done and more common than many NCRS people would have you believe. People have gotten damn good at reproducing them. Just like head stamps. Sure there are some half assed ones but people have gotten very good at forgeries
10-04-2022, 04:32 PM
#36
So the laws are different by state and then there is the federal law. It is illegal to remove and reattach a vin federally unless you meet the following exceptions:A VIN number to be removed in the following cases:
A number of states including Arizona have just passed legislation to allow the removing of a vin tag and reattaching during restoration:
https://carbuzz.com/news/theres-a-ne...-going-to-love In Michigan, where the laws are different than Arizona, I believe it is illegal to buy rosette rivets or remove the vin tag. I am not a lawyer but that is what I have heard from other owners in Michigan. If it were me I would do some research and find a legal firm in your state that focusses on this and has information available on the state laws that apply. Good luck and hope you find a solution!
- motor vehicle scrap processors or demolishers who are acting in compliance with state law,
- anyone who has to remove or alter the VIN to make a repair,
- anyone who restores or replaces VIN numbers in accordance with state law, and
- the owner of the vehicle, acting under the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, removes or alters an identifying decal or sticker.2
A number of states including Arizona have just passed legislation to allow the removing of a vin tag and reattaching during restoration:
https://carbuzz.com/news/theres-a-ne...-going-to-love In Michigan, where the laws are different than Arizona, I believe it is illegal to buy rosette rivets or remove the vin tag. I am not a lawyer but that is what I have heard from other owners in Michigan. If it were me I would do some research and find a legal firm in your state that focusses on this and has information available on the state laws that apply. Good luck and hope you find a solution!
10-04-2022, 05:48 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jul 2022
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2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
You can retain your value have a new one installed professionally. Read this...
https://www.junkyardmob.com/cars/cla...te-replacement
https://www.junkyardmob.com/cars/cla...te-replacement
10-04-2022, 06:04 PM
#38
Good info DKM-106, but this is a 10 year old thread. I believe the OP Stroh has moved on from that project.
10-04-2022, 07:00 PM
#40
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