Is there a way to tell if the documents (window sticker, tank sticker, protect-o-plate) for a C3 are real? There are places online that sell reproduction documents. I see sellers stating that they have a tank sticker etc. that proves the cars original configuration. How can a buyer know if such document are genuine or ones just ordered.

 

I would say if they are really old looking they are probably real.

I could call the NCM. They have an archive room that could probably give you the information you need.

When you do find out, good or bad, please write back here and let us know.

Thanks.

 

Hi 9492,
I think the only way to tell the difference between 'real' and 'newly printed' documentation is by becoming familiar with the 'real' documentation for the year car you're considering.
You'd be comparing the paper, it's perforations, the type font and size, etc.
I still believe you need to let the car tell it's own story, then the documentation can re-enforce what you're seeing. Don't let the documentation convince you of something you're not seeing.
I also think it's wise to hire a person very knowledgable with the car you're considering to give you his impressions of the car. This is especially true for unusual, rare, and expensive cars.
Regards,
Alan

 

It is possible to have documentation created that is indistinguishable from the original documentation.

The documentation might be usefull in certain situations. For example, if the documentation lists the original owner, you may be able to track that person down, and confirm what the documentation says. But without verification, I would not let it influence the price one penny.

 

The NCRS has a "Document Validation Service" for 62-75

 

how would a person get a hold of the document validation service? do you have to be a member of the NCRS? also what is the NCM that someone else referred to? i would be interested in more info on my car. thanks, Rick

 

To be blunt, there's not a lot of value in documentation for later C3s. The engine type is coded into the VIN, serious performance options have long bit the dust and most cars came loaded with all sorts of luxury options that today are 'normal'.

There's world of difference proving that your car really is a L88 or ZR1 as compared to that 8 track player/CB radio combo being the orignal.

For the early cars where it does make a difference, the crooks are usually 1-2 steps ahead of the cops. Beware.

 

The NCM cannot verify documentation. The NCRS sometimes can. http://www.ncrs.org/

 

NCM is the National Corvette Museum.

NCRS has a relatively new document validation service. For NCRS members + $$. I am not exactly sure how it works. They also have a relatively new service that gives you the build date and original selling dealer of your car. I got that for mine, and it was pretty cool to know where my 68 was originally sold (Riverside CA)

This is directly from the NCRS website, cut and paste, copywrite blah blah blah
writing "blah blah blah" holds me harmless does it not?
Does anyone understand what that means? To me it sounds like they will tell you if your documents are consistent with information they have, ie the information on your documents may be accurate, but I think it stops short of saying that the actual documents (pieces of paper) that you are submitting are authentic and original and genuine.

 

"will establish the authenticity of your factory documents"

sounds pretty clear to me.

 

The NCRS has access to the original Shipping Reports. What they offer is to compare the information on your documentation, to the data they have in the shipping report. If this data doesn't match, then obviously your documentation is not authentic.

So, if your documentation says that your car was originally sold at dealer A in Virginia, and the data that NCRS has says it was delivered to dealer B in Texas, then obviously your documentation is not authentic. The problem is that the documentation that NCRS has does not include vehicle options.

So, lets say you are looking at a freshly restored 69 L71 with nice documentation. If when restoring a base engine 69 the restorer found the original build sheet. The restorer would be able to have a new build sheet created for a nicely optioned L71. And there would be nothing on this new build sheet that NCRS could use to un-authenticate it.

The NCRS service, in my opinion can only say a document is not authentic, it can not say that it is authentic. In most cases I believe that would be sufficient, but I certainly would not let it sway my opinion of the price one bit.

Also, I believe that when you order the shipping data from NCRS they do not give you all of the information from the shipping report. I believe they do this on purpose, so that the data they sell can not be used to create fraudulent build sheets they can not catch. I don't know what it is, but I believe there is something on the Shipping Report that goes on build sheets, that the NCRS withholds on purpose.

 

I believe only copies of the documents in question are sent to NCRS, not the believed-to-be originals. Mine and all the others from 1969 are way too fragile and valuable to be sending anywhere. Therefore NCRS could not possibly examine the paper, ink and glue for authenticity...only the information contained and the format. The latter are quite easy to forge, the former are not. There must be experts with the necessary forensic tools and knowledge to determine authenticity...and back it up...for the right price.

 

Kinda-sorta. They have microfiche records of shipping reports.

Correct. They specifically say not to send original documents.

 

I work on reproducing documents and also aging documents for Full size cars and have done a few other Chevrolets more recently. However, the blanks I made up 20 'years ago are only for the 1966 and 1967 years. I have spent many hours learning and studying the different vehicles and have gotten pretty good at identifying reproductions in window stickers and tank stickers. I know all too well how much most members on this site detest the reproduction of documentation especially when it's used to falsify or misrepresent a vehicle which I fully understand. It's up to the individual purchasing the documentation to be up front with it, which of course does not always happen, hence the introduction of so many phony high. HP cars and others loaded with not original options. I'd love to assist in looking over some questionable,e documentation around these years and help out if I can. I guess sort of like "catch me if you can"

Paul

 

Three methods to consider when determining the authenticity of build records (paper) as you list above...maybe four or five!

1. The font used - OCR or optical character recognition
2. Other print characters on the document (non-OCR)
3. Paper used for production records.
4. How do they smell?

You could write a book on this topic but there are nuances on original documents that would differentiate them from altered documents. The Triple AAA winter sticker reproduction service had an OCR font made and that is what they use. But build sheets (73-82) used three different fonts until production moved to Bowling Green.

Paper used during this period were multi-part, pre-printed forms and the paper was thin and therefore fragile. That's a factor why so many owners find their buildsheet but its in poor condition. The intent was not for them to last thirty years.

If you have been around Corvettes and have been with owners who located a buildsheet, the obvious is the scent of the sheet depending on where they are found. I have smelled many that smell like gear oil and its distinctive. Others found in battery or jack compartments smell musty or moldy. Sounds silly but smell them...if they smell like freshly minted paper...be suspicious!

5. Is it right for the production period!

Protect-o-plate warranties were last used in 1972 so 73-82 Corvettes did not use those. Doubt a vendor pitching protect-o-plates for a late model C3. NCRS has its authenticiation library with one volume targeting protect-o-plate. Extensive research and photographic devices have gone into its publication and permits the reader to draw their own conclusions after comparing their document (Protect-o-plate) to it.

 

I bought a package for $40 from GM Vintage located on the GM website. Tells you everything about the car, date it was built, options, dealer who sold it, etc

 

That's only for cars brought into Canada by GM. (Lucky us)

 

Future project? Put me down for a copy.

 

I found this quite helpful.

Thank you.