Help! Engine stamp
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Help! Engine stamp
Hi,
I have a 69 vette. I was told it was a numbers matching car. The block casting is 3970010, which I assume is for a 350. The car is supposed to be a L46 350/350. I found the plate on the passengers side at the end of the heads, but it is very confusing. It was covered in orange paint. From what I can tell it says "CEA146790". I was told the date code is usually located next to it, but nothing is there. This doesn't match to anything I have read. I didn't see another number listing the date and VIN derivative like I assumed I would find. The VIN on the 4-speed manual transmission matches the cars VIN. Is there somewhere else the VIN might be located on the engine? Thanks for any help.
I have a 69 vette. I was told it was a numbers matching car. The block casting is 3970010, which I assume is for a 350. The car is supposed to be a L46 350/350. I found the plate on the passengers side at the end of the heads, but it is very confusing. It was covered in orange paint. From what I can tell it says "CEA146790". I was told the date code is usually located next to it, but nothing is there. This doesn't match to anything I have read. I didn't see another number listing the date and VIN derivative like I assumed I would find. The VIN on the 4-speed manual transmission matches the cars VIN. Is there somewhere else the VIN might be located on the engine? Thanks for any help.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 54,015
Likes: 6,215
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
An L46 should have an assembly code on the pad in front of the passenger side head that should say something like V0224HT or HP (V= Flint plant, month 02 day 24, HT or HP 350 hp suffixes.
The VIN derivative should be to the left of the assy code, and look something like 19S719349.
The last 5 should match the last 5 of your body VIN.
Are you saying it wasnt verified when the car was purchased?
How would you know about the trans? You physically checked that?
The VIN derivative should be to the left of the assy code, and look something like 19S719349.
The last 5 should match the last 5 of your body VIN.
Are you saying it wasnt verified when the car was purchased?
How would you know about the trans? You physically checked that?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,317
Likes: 292
From: Ocala FL
Hi,
I have a 69 vette. I was told it was a numbers matching car. The block casting is 3970010, which I assume is for a 350. The car is supposed to be a L46 350/350. I found the plate on the passengers side at the end of the heads, but it is very confusing. It was covered in orange paint. From what I can tell it says "CEA146790". I was told the date code is usually located next to it, but nothing is there. This doesn't match to anything I have read. I didn't see another number listing the date and VIN derivative like I assumed I would find. The VIN on the 4-speed manual transmission matches the cars VIN. Is there somewhere else the VIN might be located on the engine? Thanks for any help.
I have a 69 vette. I was told it was a numbers matching car. The block casting is 3970010, which I assume is for a 350. The car is supposed to be a L46 350/350. I found the plate on the passengers side at the end of the heads, but it is very confusing. It was covered in orange paint. From what I can tell it says "CEA146790". I was told the date code is usually located next to it, but nothing is there. This doesn't match to anything I have read. I didn't see another number listing the date and VIN derivative like I assumed I would find. The VIN on the 4-speed manual transmission matches the cars VIN. Is there somewhere else the VIN might be located on the engine? Thanks for any help.
There is very little chance of having a VIN or partial VIN as these were put in long after the car left the factory, and only in rare cases did dealers stamp a VIN in, such as in states that used Motor Numbers to register cars.
It is NOT the original engine and it is not Numbers Matching.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
You no longer have matching #s, and even if you somehow prove that it was a warranty motor, you receive no credit for that fact, if having it judged. That is the only location that the VIN derivative is stamped.You do have the correct 010 block, but chances are its cast date is incorrect also.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
there are many definitions of 'numbers matching'. your definition and the seller's definition may be different. What is your definition?
if you are asking if the engine you are describing is original to your car, I would say no. although there are a couple of far fetched scenarios where it could be.
does it matter? depends on how much you paid for the car and if you paid
a 'original engine' premium for it.
if you are asking if the engine you are describing is original to your car, I would say no. although there are a couple of far fetched scenarios where it could be.
does it matter? depends on how much you paid for the car and if you paid
a 'original engine' premium for it.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Thank you all. It looks like I've been had. I couldn't get a picture of the engine stamp when I bought it as it was covered in orange paint. I bought it off E-Bay and it specifically said all numbers matching. I live in Texas and had it shipped from New York. I have the body off and when I finally got the engine out, I stripped off the paint and found the number mentioned above. The transmission has the last 5 of the VIN that matches the car. It wasn't terribly expensive, but it needed a lot of work, but I wanted the originality of numbers matching.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 21,477
Likes: 463
From: Massillon,Ohio USA
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Cruise-In VI Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12
...I wouldn't say you've been had, just chalk it up as part of an expensive experience. You still have the car and it sounds like it will be a nice car when you're done, you just won't get the premium money for it when you go to sell, BUT in this economy, is anyone really getting "premium" dollar for these cars? Maybe you could get the opinion of an attorney and recoup some of your money? Maybe you could suggest to the seller you're going that route and he may "offer up" some kind of partial refund? Did you leave feedback on eBay about this?
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Brett Foote
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Sorry, but you've essential done it to yourself. There's no agreed or legal definition of the phrase 'numbers matching' despite what many assume, so you've got no real recourse. I have no idea why people even use this this term. A restamped engine could be considered numbers matching, whereas an original born-with engine that was decked would not be.
Live and learn.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Thanks for all those that helped. I thought with all the veterans on here, I would have gotten help more. Sorry Joe that I'm not as smart as you. I'm sure you have always done things perfectly. Lucky you. I just wanted to start a new hobby that would be an adventure.
Last edited by Billynjuls; Mar 25, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 803
Likes: 4
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Still can be Billy. You have the perfect opportunity to build a real screamer that would leave a factory 69 for dead! And you said it didn't cost that much, so, at the end of the day, you have a 69 Vette with the freedom to build what you want!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,338
Likes: 4,459
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi B,
I looked back at your earlier posts and remember them.
I would still encourage you to do a restoration that leans toward originality if the rest of the car can live up to that. A 69 is certainly worth the effort.
If the majority of the original car is still there, you could end up with a nice 69... you'll just have to be aware of what not having the original motor means, and also be careful that you don't get too much money in it.
Again, I don't think the fact that the original engine is gone should change what your plans for the car were/are.
It's disappointing but...a 69 is a great car to restore!
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
I looked back at your earlier posts and remember them.
I would still encourage you to do a restoration that leans toward originality if the rest of the car can live up to that. A 69 is certainly worth the effort.
If the majority of the original car is still there, you could end up with a nice 69... you'll just have to be aware of what not having the original motor means, and also be careful that you don't get too much money in it.
Again, I don't think the fact that the original engine is gone should change what your plans for the car were/are.
It's disappointing but...a 69 is a great car to restore!
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
Dwelling on numbers matching is paying too much attention to a very trifling thing, Billy. If this was sold as a nm 427/435, then you'd have some cause for concern. It's not a big deal and, as long as you don't try to sell it on this forum, it's doubtful you'll run into a buyer who even knows or cares what the hell numbers matching means in any of its iterations. I suppose it would be different if you found out the engine was a 262, 283 or 307.
Just enjoy the car and put the engine issue behind you.
Just enjoy the car and put the engine issue behind you.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Likes: 59
From: Central Valley Cali
I had a CE coded 327 in my 72. The only way you will be able to tell what that motor is, is to look at all the casting numbers, drop the pan, and see what it is. You can try to find out as much as you can but remember back in-the-day you could buy a complete motor or piece on together like I think mine was? My CE 327ci had LT-1 (70-73)heads but they were over the counter as they were angle plugs, and a GM winters aluminum intake but the last number was stamped diffrent so it was an over the counter as well. But like others have said it is not the original motor. If you do a search like I have you will find there are more of these out there then you think.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 12
From: wichita kansas
IMO....the seller DID intentionally mis-represent the car by calling it "numbers matching". and as has been mentioned here, there is no exact definition of that term, but certainly would be the consensus (i'm pretty sure) that "numbers matching" means that the VIN is stamped on the front pad of that engine! EVEN if it were a restamped VIN to match the original engine. others may argue the definition, but that's how i see it. the good news is, that at the end of the day, you have a 69' vette with a 350ci engine that can be restored back to a very nice car!!! (and the original tranny and probably original rear end) enjoy it! Rick