Matching numbers?
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,280
Likes: 4,372
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi,
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
Maybe it was a joke, maybe not. It's my understanding that a Corvette may achieve Top Flight with a non original block providing it is typical of production at that time. The deduction for the pad would not necessarily be enough to make Top Flight unachievable. I would think a date code outside the typically accepted 6 month period would bring a larger deduction, how much I don't know. I agree with Alan71, it would be interesting to see what the NCRS judges made of this. I have always thought anything outside of 6 months was unacceptable. Should this period be extended?
Last edited by BBCorv70; Jul 17, 2013 at 11:52 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
Maybe it was a joke, maybe not. It's my understanding that a Corvette may achieve Top Flight with a non original block providing it is typical of production at that time. The deduction for the pad would not necessarily be enough to make Top Flight unachievable. I would think a date code outside the typically accepted 6 month period would bring a larger deduction, how much I don't know. I agree with Alan71, it would be interesting to see what the NCRS judges made of this. I have always thought anything outside of 6 months was unacceptable. Should this period be extended?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
Casting date is worth 175. There's no condition judging, just originality. And hopefully Mike or Steve or Alan can confirm, but I believe it is an all or nothing score for originality on the casting date, no minor deduct.
I am zipping up my flame suit in case Mike does come after me for assuming.
I am zipping up my flame suit in case Mike does come after me for assuming.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
No, I'm content with the one I have now. I was looking to see what prices people are asking for in todays market. This one caught my eye, the odd date code. This is just a curiousity to me. If I were an interested buyer, I'd certainly contact the seller.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Hi,
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
Casting date is worth 175. There's no condition judging, just originality. And hopefully Mike or Steve or Alan can confirm, but I believe it is an all or nothing score for originality on the casting date, no minor deduct.
I am zipping up my flame suit in case Mike does come after me for assuming.
I am zipping up my flame suit in case Mike does come after me for assuming.
You didn't conclude that judging is stupid cause they do it wrong, so no flame suit required.
See above discussion on the six month guideline.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,986
Likes: 6,212
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,986
Likes: 6,212
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Hi,
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
The existence of an NCRS LETTER is mentioned.....
but isn't there a LAW that states when NCRS Judging is mentioned as part of a For Sale advertisement the Judging Sheets from the events the car was judged at MUST be available for review by perspective buyers?
It would be interesting to see the judge's notes about the block's casting date.
Regards,
Alan
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
...For the money they're asking, I'd like to hear the story, have the pad checked out to look for evidence of tampering. We'll never know for sure if it's original...
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
I can barely make out some talk about the grind marks. Maybe the stamp is addressed here. If someone can see what the letter says it would be interesting.
Scroll to image 40/58 on the website.
http://www.hendrickperformance.com/d...-10483614.html
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
The letter is located in the photos. I tried to blow up the letter to read it better without success.
I can barely make out some talk about the grind marks. Maybe the stamp is addressed here. If someone can see what the letter says it would be interesting.
Scroll to image 40/58 on the website.
http://www.hendrickperformance.com/d...-10483614.html
I can barely make out some talk about the grind marks. Maybe the stamp is addressed here. If someone can see what the letter says it would be interesting.
Scroll to image 40/58 on the website.
http://www.hendrickperformance.com/d...-10483614.html
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
There is a pad on the block at the front of the right head (passenger's). The engine assembly date with suffix and a VIN derivitive are stamped on the pad.
71 and 72 stamps will be similiar with the exception of the 71s who used the C11 as part of the VIN derivitive.
71 and 72 stamps will be similiar with the exception of the 71s who used the C11 as part of the VIN derivitive.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
And the casting number and date is on the drivers side rear if you want to compare them to your engine assembly date. You'll have to remove some ignition shielding to get to it. It will be tough to see.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 331
From: Indy Indiana
the judging guide does talk about failed engine assembly being taken back into the shop and cases ground down and stamped again for the appropriate car.. one would think this is really rare.. also the engine build date may 8 for a june 15 car... is a double bogey for this engine also..
to state that 6 months is typical is not right.. 2 to 6 weeks is typical, and 6 months is the extreme.. then to go out another 2-3 months past that is ultra extreme..... a late year car may indeed have some parts gathered from the bowels of the plant to complete the engine... who knows.
This is just another car with an excuse.. one will struggle getting big money out of this car because of this excuse.
to state that 6 months is typical is not right.. 2 to 6 weeks is typical, and 6 months is the extreme.. then to go out another 2-3 months past that is ultra extreme..... a late year car may indeed have some parts gathered from the bowels of the plant to complete the engine... who knows.
This is just another car with an excuse.. one will struggle getting big money out of this car because of this excuse.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 850
Likes: 384
Not sure why some people are so worried about stating that their car has an "original" engine - if it does. When a seller either does not know, or is trying to mislead an inexperienced buyer, they will state "matching numbers".
If an engine is original, it is original. I have a 1967 black/black 435hp roadster with an "original" engine. I see no significant value in the term "matching numbers", Either a car has an born-with original engine, or it does not. other than it denotes the "correct type" engine.
It is a shame that we have come to a time where the "matching numbers" term is frequently used - a very dangerous reference point for any buyer except the very, very knowledgeable and experienced.
For this reason, most of the very best original cars, of any make, trade within a relatively closed circle.
If an engine is original, it is original. I have a 1967 black/black 435hp roadster with an "original" engine. I see no significant value in the term "matching numbers", Either a car has an born-with original engine, or it does not. other than it denotes the "correct type" engine.
It is a shame that we have come to a time where the "matching numbers" term is frequently used - a very dangerous reference point for any buyer except the very, very knowledgeable and experienced.
For this reason, most of the very best original cars, of any make, trade within a relatively closed circle.