It would not, under any stretch of the imagination, be a "legit" LT1 again. It's no different than the original big block cars out there missing their original motors that have replacement NOM similar to the original.

I guess we can quibble what "legit" means. To me, "legit" is not a car missing the original motor with a similar motor replaced. YRMV.

 

I'm always a little weary of absolutes.

If the car was an honest to goodness LT-1, the owner could:
-Find a period correct correctly coded engine block
-Find a set of date coded camel hump heads without the accessory holes
-Find the correct Winter's intake
-Find the correct coded Holley carb
-Find the correct TI with number band, external box, shielding, etc.
-Find the correct baffled oil pan
-Find the correct fuel pump
-Get a new cam to the original grind
-Get a new set of solid lifters, pushrods, etc.
-Find the right valve covers (not too tough)
-Make sure he has an M21 transmission (another big clue as to whether the underlying car is a "true" LT-1 or not)

While not judged, I also thing it would be IMPERATIVE that the car also contain:
-Original TRW mini-dome pistons
-Forged crank and rods

Given all of those things, you could have a NOM car that is judged a CORRECT NOM LT-1. I don't see why, given all of the above, the car couldn't again be called a "real" LT-1 since this is essentially an old LT-1 engine that has gone through at least one refurbishing cycle...perfectly reasonable for a 43 year old car.

Of course, good luck finding all the parts. Then paying for all the parts. Especially when the cost of all those parts would be much higher than the GAIN of making the car a NOM LT-1.

Money better spent making the car a "NOM-used-to-be-an-LT-1-but-is-now-a-500-hp-screamer".

The LT-1 option IS the engine, in my opinion. And that opinion has been stated by many others. If you FAITHFULLY reproduce the engine, the car could possible be an LT-1 yet again. Otherwise, it is just a really cool car. Which is fine, too.

 

IMO "real LT-1" vs "original LT-1" strikes me as marketing spin, the second being a more accurate description. If the car was marketed as a 'survivor', the term 'real' would apply, otherwise it's a matter of being 'original' or not. The difference between an 'original' and an accurately done NOM is in who assembled the car, people in St Louis or someone in their garage, same car, same components, drives the same. To a collector, being assembled in St Louis is very important. To someone looking for a driver, probably not so much.

 

And that's really the point.

LT-1 without an LT-1 motor is similar in value to a NOM 300 hp car (we're talking 1970's for the comparisons.

Add a 100% correct NOM...I'm talking FAITHFUL reproduction of EVERY aspect of the LT-1 engine...to a car that was originally an LT-1, and you MAY be able to extract the same value as a numbers-matching 300 hp car. Maybe.

You said it best...a "real" LT-1 is not an "original" LT-1.

It's like discussing the definition of "is".

 

I would guess the is, was, could be, is not, would only be important when the new buyer goes to sell the car at some point. That's like upgrading an L82 with new heads and cam. Is it still an L82? I would guess most people don't really care.

 

So if I have a "real" (built as such in St.Louis) '69 L-88 without it's original engine, the best I can hope for is what I would pay for a base engine '69 Corvette in similar condition?

LOL

Regards,

Stan Falenski

 

Absolutely not a bust on the L82 or your car, but if the L82 option represented a nearly 25% increase in horsepower and essentially put RACE COMPONENTS of the day into a streetable car, then the "value" of your L82 and/or subsequent removal of the L82 components WOULD have a very significant impact on your car.

Notwithstanding the relative rarity of the LT-1 option. On an already relatively rare car (1970). And with 1970 being the particular year that was "the top of the pyramid" in small-block horsepower levels for the next 20 years. With the LT-1 engine being the top of THAT pyramid.

So if the L82 represented all those things, yes, I do believe people would care greatly.

As it is, I would still save your old parts.

 

We're talking about LT-1's.

In 1970, ~7% of the cars were LT-1. Being a racing engine, it was used for racing. I'd wager to say that LT-1 engines saw more abuse than a base car, in general, leading to fewer LT-1's with original engines than regular cars with original engines on a relative basis. That's a guess, though, so don't skewer me.

Comparing that to a car that had a TOTAL (complete 1967 to 1969) production run of 216 units (represending 0.24% of total production for those three years) is not fair. An L88 CAR has intrinsic value just for it's VIN plate and tank sticker. And its value would be greatly increased by having a correct engine.

Little difference there. Care to talk about ZR-1's too?

 

It's all relative... We don't even have to be talking about Corvettes.

The point that was being pushed (and it wasn't you that was pushing it) is that it was not relevant that the OP's car started out as an LT-1. Because it did not have the original engine installed in the car, it couldn't be considered an LT-1 for valuation purposes.

When was the last time that you saw a documented (tank sticker and/or POP) 1970 LT-1 convertible (original engine or not) for sale? I'd be hard pressed to name three of four in the last several years and I'm looking for them all the time.

I'd say it was more of a street high performance engine, but I do agree with your statement in general... Although we don't have actual numbers to support this premise, it's true that most cars with high performance engines are purchased for more than just daily transportation.

Again, the numbers are relative. The important point is that these cars have value over and above what a base model car would be in similar condition as long as you can prove it.

Documentation and ownership history...

Here's an interesting point to ponder since you brought up ZR-1s.

Chevy claims 216 L-88s over three years, 53 ZR-1s over three years, and 12 ZR-2s over one year. If it was all about the production numbers, why is it that the best L-88s will sell for almost four times what a similar ZR-1 will bring and almost twice as much as a comparable ZR-2?

The production numbers are relative. The car has value for what it was and is.

Regards,

Stan

 

I don't have a L82, just wondering if the engine is altered, even adding additional hp, is the car still a L82? The vin say's so. Does the LT-1 have a specific vin? I'm really just trying to form an opinion for some strange reason.

 

Which is why an LT-1 with the original engine is an LT-1 and has value.

 

And a documented LT-1 without its original engine Mike?

Regards,

Stan

 

A used C3 with a replacement engine.

 

You don't think a car that rolled off the factory line as an LT-1, and had the motor replaced with another true LT-1 motor could ever be called an LT-1 gain?

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Did anything such as special suspension etc., come with the LT-1 package beside the engine? And if so, could these items be added as an option without adding the LT-1 engine?

 

As with whitehause, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Let me a make a bigger mess of this than it already is... Original owner picks up new LT-1 Corvette back in 1970. Engine lets go and is replaced under warranty. Real LT-1 or not?

Regards,

Stan

 

Nothing that couldn't be located and easily added after the fact... Which is why I place a high importance on the documentation and ownership history as well as what the car itself has to show.

Regards,

Stan

 

Oh no...you threw the old "CE" block into it

 

I believe ( don't flame me on this ) that there were two LT-1 motor possibilities before you even got to factory options. One was basically the standard LT-1 we think of... motor, hood, badging, ect and the other one used the LT-1, but with the performance package and M22 (rockcrusher) trans which made it the Zr1.

The Lt-1's aren't "super" rare at 1,287.....the Zr1 on the other hand.....only 25.

 

Going by the logic we've been hearing from collectors, no, it's now a NOM, not an LT-1.

IMO it's still an LT-1 as defined by the option package though not original. LT-1 designation describes a configuration. To say it's not an LT-1 in any way makes no sense. Kind of like saying it's no longer a Stingray or not a Corvette. It comes down to a collectors appraisal, not original, doesn't matter what it had before. I understand this, the rarity is lost. To someone who is interested in a driver, an LT-1 configuration will certainly drive differently than a base model, the LT-1 configuration is what's important, not the originality. I'd say a buyer looking for an LT-1 driver will certainly pay more for this car than a base model. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one as well...

BTW, as I'm sure you know, NCRS and Bloomington have no requirement the original engine be present to be accepted as LT-1, big block, what ever. Purely judged on the basis of how they were built, no financial interests to defend.