Power vs Standard Brakes
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 676
Likes: 36
From: Usa
Power vs Standard Brakes
Took my 73 out for the first time and have a question regarding the brakes. The 73 has standard brakes & it seemed to take an excessive amount of foot pressure to operate the brakes. I am not sure if this is a problem or normal as this is my first C3 with standard brakes. I previously had a 77 but it was a power brake car so I have no point of reference. I realize the standard brakes are going to take more effort just not sure what's normal. Any comments
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 926
Likes: 2
From: Castle Rock CO
http://www.zip-corvette.com/ProductD...L2-SR&CTitle=&
If you want to take the time and expense a conversion kit is available. While most of my classic cars had power assisted brake systems I had one that was not. A 1971 Ford F100 that I bought that previous owner installed a 390 out of a 1967 Ford Fairlane 500. While I enjoyed the off the line power in a light pickup truck stopping it totally sucked. I used to haul stuff like a lot of fire wood It did have disks in the front. But had to stand on the brakes to stop it.
While I do agree with the other dude that someone might have installed the wrong master in it not very likely they have different part numbers and that would have been a huge mistake on the previous owners part.
If you want to take the time and expense a conversion kit is available. While most of my classic cars had power assisted brake systems I had one that was not. A 1971 Ford F100 that I bought that previous owner installed a 390 out of a 1967 Ford Fairlane 500. While I enjoyed the off the line power in a light pickup truck stopping it totally sucked. I used to haul stuff like a lot of fire wood It did have disks in the front. But had to stand on the brakes to stop it.
While I do agree with the other dude that someone might have installed the wrong master in it not very likely they have different part numbers and that would have been a huge mistake on the previous owners part.
Last edited by MakoJoe; Sep 6, 2013 at 10:52 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh Pa
I like non power brakes I think they have more feel.It was a pita to change over my 75. A bonus is you always have the same brakes regardless of your vacuume level. Especially if you have a lumpy cam with low vacuume. I f you need it to stop / slow in a hurry it will be no problem.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 140
From: Western New York
If your non-power brake system is working correctly, it should stop you with no problem and very little brake pedal pressure. I have non-power in my '72 and it stops as well as my '05 Civic with power brakes and actually stops twice as good as my '98 Silverado with power brakes. It sounds like you might have something wrong with your system.
Duane
Duane
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 926
Likes: 2
From: Castle Rock CO
Try bleeding out your system with a good quality DOT3/DOT4 synthetic brake fluid. Buy about 2 quarts to bleed it fully. It will probably only need one quart but get 2 to be safe.
Start on the passenger rear, than drivers side rear, passenger front and then drivers side front. Old fluid can also cause problems in the braking on the car.
Start on the passenger rear, than drivers side rear, passenger front and then drivers side front. Old fluid can also cause problems in the braking on the car.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 676
Likes: 36
From: Usa
I drove around a bit more & am convinced the amount of foot pressure required is a bit excessive. If the brakes need bleeding could this cause the high pedal pressure. I always thought that air in the system would cause a soft pedal. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 644
From: Lincoln, CA
Good to great pads make a huge difference as well.
Yes air usually gives you a soft mush pedal. If it's firm all the through the travel I'd be looking at something else. Of course it's always wise to bleed them if you have not done it in two years.
It could also be a hung caliper. On mine one rotor looks pretty crusty because the pistons were not pushing the pad against the rotor very well. So I replaced both sides with new ones.
Yes air usually gives you a soft mush pedal. If it's firm all the through the travel I'd be looking at something else. Of course it's always wise to bleed them if you have not done it in two years.
It could also be a hung caliper. On mine one rotor looks pretty crusty because the pistons were not pushing the pad against the rotor very well. So I replaced both sides with new ones.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 676
Likes: 36
From: Usa
Good to great pads make a huge difference as well.
Yes air usually gives you a soft mush pedal. If it's firm all the through the travel I'd be looking at something else. Of course it's always wise to bleed them if you have not done it in two years.
It could also be a hung caliper. On mine one rotor looks pretty crusty because the pistons were not pushing the pad against the rotor very well. So I replaced both sides with new ones.
Yes air usually gives you a soft mush pedal. If it's firm all the through the travel I'd be looking at something else. Of course it's always wise to bleed them if you have not done it in two years.
It could also be a hung caliper. On mine one rotor looks pretty crusty because the pistons were not pushing the pad against the rotor very well. So I replaced both sides with new ones.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 9
My '74 has no power brakes and I only notice the difference in a "panic" stop.
The power brake master cylinder doesn't look any different from the outside, but the bore is 1/8" larger. This shortens the pedal travel during a brake application.
The power brake master cylinder doesn't look any different from the outside, but the bore is 1/8" larger. This shortens the pedal travel during a brake application.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
The braking system should work equally well, whether manual or power, if the system is configured correctly. The only difference will be "pedal effort". But, you can do a full panic stop with both systems and have about the same stopping distance.
If your braking performance is not up to par, it's NOT because you have a 'manual' braking system.
If your braking performance is not up to par, it's NOT because you have a 'manual' braking system.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 676
Likes: 36
From: Usa
The braking system should work equally well, whether manual or power, if the system is configured correctly. The only difference will be "pedal effort". But, you can do a full panic stop with both systems and have about the same stopping distance.
If your braking performance is not up to par, it's NOT because you have a 'manual' braking system.
If your braking performance is not up to par, it's NOT because you have a 'manual' braking system.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 926
Likes: 2
From: Castle Rock CO
Well you're just not used to a non power system Convert if you do not like it. Link I sent you is inexpensive and what like $300 bucks.
Non power brakes suck and are stand on the pedal. I have owned them in the past. 4000 pounds of car is hard to stop and power assist will decrease the stopping Distance by a lot. Buy a upgrade or get used to it. Hell I have owned cars with four wheel Drum Brakes and you want to know what it is like to stop one of these cars without power brakes. HMM better not have someone lock up brakes in front of you at least your Vette has 4 Wheel Disk Brakes
If you have ever driven a power brake car then lost the engine power then you will really know what non power brakes feel like. Was driving my 1972 El Camino down a Highway at about 70 MPH and the rotor in the distributor cap failed and blew apart. Engine stalled at 70 MPH and I had no vacuum assist on the brakes. Can tell you it sucked and was much harder to stop than anything I had without power assist
Last edited by MakoJoe; Sep 8, 2013 at 03:06 AM.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 448
Likes: 21
From: Klein Texas
Power assist was rare on vehicles with drum brakes. Drum brakes were "self energizing" .When disc brakes were install power assist became (almost) mandatory because the higher pedal effort needed.
My '67 has no power brakes. My '72 does. While both cars stop fine the '67 requires significantly more muscle from my leg.
My '67 has no power brakes. My '72 does. While both cars stop fine the '67 requires significantly more muscle from my leg.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
As mentioned earlier, the manual brake master cylinder has a larger piston diameter than the power brake M/C. If someone installed the wrong M/C, it will require even higher pedal effort.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
IF you have the correct m/cyl.....I recommend you do a hydroboost install, instead of the silly vacuum system....it runs off your power steering pump, but since manual brakes, maybe it's manual steering also, in which case....well....I would see two upgrades....
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 676
Likes: 36
From: Usa
THIS/\ is true, so check the diameter of the cyl.....
IF you have the correct m/cyl.....I recommend you do a hydroboost install, instead of the silly vacuum system....it runs off your power steering pump, but since manual brakes, maybe it's manual steering also, in which case....well....I would see two upgrades....
IF you have the correct m/cyl.....I recommend you do a hydroboost install, instead of the silly vacuum system....it runs off your power steering pump, but since manual brakes, maybe it's manual steering also, in which case....well....I would see two upgrades....
Pro
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 511
Likes: 66
From: Timnath, CO
My 72 with manual brakes requires a lot of pedal effort but stops well. I had a 72 Nova many years ago with manual brakes - those brakes required quite a bit of effort too. I thought the whole purpose of power brakes was to reduce the pedal effort?
Thanks for the tip on the master cylinder. I'll have to check that out. I guess there should be a part number on it that I can check.
Thanks for the tip on the master cylinder. I'll have to check that out. I guess there should be a part number on it that I can check.
