October 69 build date, what would engine date range be?
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Former Vendor
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From: Thorold Ontario
October 69 build date, what would engine date range be?
Have an October 69 built car, and engine block and heads are all dated k228, and k108 for block. Is this date range normal? November of 68 I believe the dates would be, so 11 months before build date. Is this normal, and would be ok for ncrs? I thought ncrs had 6 month rule? Stamp pad and vin are both mid October 69.
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From: Delaware
St. Jude Donor '25
Have an October 69 built car, and engine block and heads are all dated k228, and k108 for block. Is this date range normal? November of 68 I believe the dates would be, so 11 months before build date. Is this normal, and would be ok for ncrs? I thought ncrs had 6 month rule? Stamp pad and vin are both mid October 69.
As far as NCRS goes, I believe 6 months is the guideline. Anything outside that would be suspect and would probably require some sort of proof (just guessing, there are a few judges here that would know). Even though there is a 6 month guideline, most cars, barring any strikes or other circumstances, are closer to the build date than that.
Try to post a clear picture of the stamp pad.
Last edited by avalonjohn; Jan 27, 2014 at 10:30 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
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From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
I am assuming small block based on those casting dates.
The NCRS Judging Guide states, "The engine casting date must precede the engine assembly date, and both must precede the vehicle assembly date by no more than six months."
Typical production is 2-8 weeks.
I would expect a deduct for not typical.
The date code can also be seen through the oil fill cap, so I would expect a deduct as well.
EDIT: Seems John did a bit more research into your car. You cannot see the date code on the big block heads; therefore, the casting number or date is not judged.
The NCRS Judging Guide states, "The engine casting date must precede the engine assembly date, and both must precede the vehicle assembly date by no more than six months."
Typical production is 2-8 weeks.
I would expect a deduct for not typical.
The date code can also be seen through the oil fill cap, so I would expect a deduct as well.
EDIT: Seems John did a bit more research into your car. You cannot see the date code on the big block heads; therefore, the casting number or date is not judged.
Last edited by LeMans Pete; Jan 27, 2014 at 10:38 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 861
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From: Summerville SC
I agree with avalonjohn, not impossible I guess, but certainly not typical. Usually casting date to assy is much less than 6 months, but the NCRS will use 6 months as a guide line. I would like to see good pictures of the pad.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2013
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From: Thorold Ontario
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 17
From: Thorold Ontario
Hi, I am by far no expert but I'd say Nov 68 for an Oct 69 build is a bit out of whack. It's a 400hp car right? Do you have a picture of the stamp pad you could post? Are the casting dates clear enough that you are certain they are K**8? I've seen 9's that have looked like an 8 at first glance (though Nov 69 would really be wrong). The block and heads seem to jive with each other, just not for the car. I assume the block casting # is correct?
As far as NCRS goes, I believe 6 months is the guideline. Anything outside that would be suspect and would probably require some sort of proof (just guessing, there are a few judges here that would know). Even though there is a 6 month guideline, most cars, barring any strikes or other circumstances, are closer to the build date than that.
Try to post a clear picture of the stamp pad.
As far as NCRS goes, I believe 6 months is the guideline. Anything outside that would be suspect and would probably require some sort of proof (just guessing, there are a few judges here that would know). Even though there is a 6 month guideline, most cars, barring any strikes or other circumstances, are closer to the build date than that.
Try to post a clear picture of the stamp pad.
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From: Westminster Maryland
Hi nv,
I'm surprised at the random spacing of the digits on both the assembly stamp and the vin derivative stamp.
Since they were done at 2 different locations wouldn't at least one of them have been done in a gang holder?
What's the pad surface like under that paint? Any indication of a "factory grind-out"?
Regards,
Alan
I'm surprised at the random spacing of the digits on both the assembly stamp and the vin derivative stamp.
Since they were done at 2 different locations wouldn't at least one of them have been done in a gang holder?
What's the pad surface like under that paint? Any indication of a "factory grind-out"?
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; Jan 28, 2014 at 06:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 17
From: Thorold Ontario
Hi nv,
I'm surprised at the random spacing of the digits on both the assembly stamp and the vin derivative stamp.
Since they were done at 2 different locations wouldn't at least one of them have been done in a gang holder?
What's the pad surface like under that paint?
Regards,
Alan
I'm surprised at the random spacing of the digits on both the assembly stamp and the vin derivative stamp.
Since they were done at 2 different locations wouldn't at least one of them have been done in a gang holder?
What's the pad surface like under that paint?
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,297
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From: Thorold Ontario
Thanks mike, I'll stay away from it then. Dates seemed off, just not sure why someone would have stamped the pad with those numbers? The motor and car are being sold by 2 different people hundreds of miles apart who don't even know each other, I sort of stumbled on the car after looking at the motor. Is the vin AND the engine jnfo and suffix both bad, or just the vin part? Just trying to learn, thanks again
CF Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Delaware
St. Jude Donor '25
Thanks mike, I'll stay away from it then. Dates seemed off, just not sure why someone would have stamped the pad with those numbers? The motor and car are being sold by 2 different people hundreds of miles apart who don't even know each other, I sort of stumbled on the car after looking at the motor. Is the vin AND the engine jnfo and suffix both bad, or just the vin part? Just trying to learn, thanks again
Strange that they are being sold separately by two who don't know each other.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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Thanks mike, I'll stay away from it then. Dates seemed off, just not sure why someone would have stamped the pad with those numbers? The motor and car are being sold by 2 different people hundreds of miles apart who don't even know each other, I sort of stumbled on the car after looking at the motor. Is the vin AND the engine jnfo and suffix both bad, or just the vin part? Just trying to learn, thanks again
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 861
Likes: 9
From: Summerville SC
Unless the lines I'm seeing on the pad are just in the paint, my opinion would be that the pad has been remachined. The machining lines, or broach marks which is what they are refered to, should run parallel to the center line of the block, (back to front). The broach marks may be heavy & very pronounced or rather faint, I've seen both, depending on when they changed their tooling at the plant.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Indy Indiana
I expect your motivation is to try an re-unite the motor and the car back together.. not worth the effort in this case.. that is not a gang stamped pad, fonts are wrong, spacing is wrong, check casting number, it may not even be a 512 block.. can't comment on the broach marks since the pad is painted, but I expect that if you did clean off the paint, there would be no marks, or swirleys will be there.
I bet that engine and car were indeed once united, but badly stamped to make it look original to the novice buyer.
2 to 8 weeks would be more normal, 6 months is extreme, and 11 months is ultra extreme.
scenarios exist where it could be the original engine to the car, but those excuses won't fool a knowledgeable buyer.
interesting find though.
I bet that engine and car were indeed once united, but badly stamped to make it look original to the novice buyer.
2 to 8 weeks would be more normal, 6 months is extreme, and 11 months is ultra extreme.
scenarios exist where it could be the original engine to the car, but those excuses won't fool a knowledgeable buyer.
interesting find though.