Thinking about replacing my frame
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
$7K for a new frame?
Looks like $4500 from this vendor...
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....Z5Z5Z50000082A
Are there any problems with this frame? Price incorrect?
Looks like $4500 from this vendor...
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....Z5Z5Z50000082A
Are there any problems with this frame? Price incorrect?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
Interesting. Not too specific on if it's NOS, newly built, or refurbished. No matter what, that isn't a bad price at all.
I'm working a trade+cash angle on the frame I'm eying now. May be able to get into it for $1k cash plus some parts I'm not using anyway. Will meander down this path first.
I appreciate the heads up, though. If I have to swing back to a different strategy, perhaps I'll give these folks a call...
I'm working a trade+cash angle on the frame I'm eying now. May be able to get into it for $1k cash plus some parts I'm not using anyway. Will meander down this path first.
I appreciate the heads up, though. If I have to swing back to a different strategy, perhaps I'll give these folks a call...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
Interesting. Not too specific on if it's NOS, newly built, or refurbished. No matter what, that isn't a bad price at all.
I'm working a trade+cash angle on the frame I'm eying now. May be able to get into it for $1k cash plus some parts I'm not using anyway. Will meander down this path first.
I appreciate the heads up, though. If I have to swing back to a different strategy, perhaps I'll give these folks a call...
I'm working a trade+cash angle on the frame I'm eying now. May be able to get into it for $1k cash plus some parts I'm not using anyway. Will meander down this path first.
I appreciate the heads up, though. If I have to swing back to a different strategy, perhaps I'll give these folks a call...
TheCorvetteBen
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 144
From: Van Alstyne, TX
Most of the differences in frames come from differences in gas tanks, suspension, and front and rear bumpers. This is what I am pulling from memory... not 100% accurate.
For example:
1968 frames unique due to first year run.
1969-1972 Frames are inerchangeable.
1973-1974 Frames are interchangable because the add on of the early rubber bumpers with no impact crap behind them. (can be modified to work on earlier cars if you are good at welding)
1975-1977 Frames are interchangable because all the front/rear bumpers are the same and the gas tank remained the same
1978-1979 Are interchangeable due to a different gas tank (changed to a different size because of the bigger back window.)
1980-1982 are interchangeable because the front and rear bumpers are the same, gas tank is the same, and rear suspension is the same.
All automatic transmissions corvettes had frames with a removeable cross member, all standard transmission corvettes has the cross member welded in place.
For example:
1968 frames unique due to first year run.
1969-1972 Frames are inerchangeable.
1973-1974 Frames are interchangable because the add on of the early rubber bumpers with no impact crap behind them. (can be modified to work on earlier cars if you are good at welding)
1975-1977 Frames are interchangable because all the front/rear bumpers are the same and the gas tank remained the same
1978-1979 Are interchangeable due to a different gas tank (changed to a different size because of the bigger back window.)
1980-1982 are interchangeable because the front and rear bumpers are the same, gas tank is the same, and rear suspension is the same.
All automatic transmissions corvettes had frames with a removeable cross member, all standard transmission corvettes has the cross member welded in place.
Last edited by chstitans42; Apr 5, 2014 at 06:46 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
If this works out, it would still make sense money-wise.
If this DOESN'T work out, that may be a direction to head...go to Carlisle with a wad of cash and an empty trailer...
Last edited by keithinspace; Apr 4, 2014 at 10:47 PM.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
Curious:
A bolt-in crossmember is desirable. So it may seem that I WANT an auto frame? Does the 4-speed otherwise just bolt in to an auto frame?
To that end, does the auto frame still have the Z-Bar mount? Or is that deleted from the auto frame?
If I get a manual frame, I'm going to modify it to make the cross-member removeable. Too much of a pain to pull the engine to access my transmission.
A bolt-in crossmember is desirable. So it may seem that I WANT an auto frame? Does the 4-speed otherwise just bolt in to an auto frame?
To that end, does the auto frame still have the Z-Bar mount? Or is that deleted from the auto frame?
If I get a manual frame, I'm going to modify it to make the cross-member removeable. Too much of a pain to pull the engine to access my transmission.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
The "mod" that makes pre-mid-'68 a threshold is the large vertical gussets at the kickup.
The "mod" that makes the post-'74 threshold is the 'bumper tubes' that hold the 5 MPH bumper springs/hydraulics. The mid-'68 to '74 frames have all square metal in the back.
That's my understanding.
Pro
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 547
Likes: 9
From: Westminster Md
By the way i had about 4 to choose from. I am going to have my car judged, thats way I paid more for new frame. I bad to purchase a cross member because the factory replacement has the cross member that is bolted to the frame. How bad is your frame?
Nelson007
Nelson007
Pro
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 547
Likes: 9
From: Westminster Md
What year LT1 carb do you have?
Thanks,
Nelson007
Thanks,
Nelson007
I really appreciate the input and thoughts. I'm really hoping this local frame works out.
I have my old LT-1 Camel Hump heads, a good set of sidepipe headers, a complete LT-1 TI system, and an original LT-1 carb with correct metering blocks that I'm hoping to put in the mix as a partial trade/barter.
The guy who owns the frame rebuilds stuff, specifically Corvettes, and my engine builder (now frame broker) believes he'll work with me.
So, for the moment, hold that thought and let me chase down this lead for a week. If it falls flat on its face, I'll PM you. Those are all excellent thoughts.
So everyone knows, this isn't my first foray into frames...just the first hard lead I've had on a solid frame at a decent price. I asked a few non-local folks a few weeks ago and all the "bare frame" prices (no rehab, no sandblasting, nothing) were $3,500 to $4,500. It was discouraging, to say the least.
I don't disagree with the Steeroids thought. I can find a lot of uses for the gaping chasm between a $160 rebuilt box and a $1,300 Steeroids system. I know its better, but I can always add it later. Probably a good call.
Same with the trans. 60% chance I will drop my entire engine/clutch/trans setup onto the new frame without even cracking it open. I have <250 miles on the engine/clutch as I write this. 30% chance I'll open the trans and rebuild it. 10% chance I'll get a different trans.
I have a really good local powdercoater who can handle frames, so I'll probably get them to price it out. They do exceptional work and if it is under $500 for them to blast it and coat it, that'd be a no-brainer.
I have my old LT-1 Camel Hump heads, a good set of sidepipe headers, a complete LT-1 TI system, and an original LT-1 carb with correct metering blocks that I'm hoping to put in the mix as a partial trade/barter.
The guy who owns the frame rebuilds stuff, specifically Corvettes, and my engine builder (now frame broker) believes he'll work with me.
So, for the moment, hold that thought and let me chase down this lead for a week. If it falls flat on its face, I'll PM you. Those are all excellent thoughts.
So everyone knows, this isn't my first foray into frames...just the first hard lead I've had on a solid frame at a decent price. I asked a few non-local folks a few weeks ago and all the "bare frame" prices (no rehab, no sandblasting, nothing) were $3,500 to $4,500. It was discouraging, to say the least.
I don't disagree with the Steeroids thought. I can find a lot of uses for the gaping chasm between a $160 rebuilt box and a $1,300 Steeroids system. I know its better, but I can always add it later. Probably a good call.
Same with the trans. 60% chance I will drop my entire engine/clutch/trans setup onto the new frame without even cracking it open. I have <250 miles on the engine/clutch as I write this. 30% chance I'll open the trans and rebuild it. 10% chance I'll get a different trans.
I have a really good local powdercoater who can handle frames, so I'll probably get them to price it out. They do exceptional work and if it is under $500 for them to blast it and coat it, that'd be a no-brainer.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,353
Likes: 787
From: Redondo Beach, California
For now, just sitting here, I forget some of the frame specifics. The frame horn extensions...the body pieces that connect the frame to the bumper are different as you progress from a 68 frame to a 69 frame. Also, I bought a replacement frame for my 69 from GM. I bought the frame in 1980 and assumed it was a duplicate 1969 frame, it was only later that I found out that a replacement frame bought in the early 1980's would be a 1973 frame. So I have a 1973 frame, not a 1969 frame. Unfortunately, the frame extensions for the 1973 frame (once again purchased thinking it was a 69 frame) ail not exactly match up to my 1970 bumpers. ARggggh! A little torch and/or drilling will be required.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
Could be worse, I guess, but as I said in my OP, there is a vast combination of small and large things that make me want to take this project on.
The carb I am staring at right now is a "DZ" Holley 780 LIST-4053. My understanding is that it is original to a '69 Z-28. The carb itself, though, is 100% identical to the LT-1 Corvette carb. The dual metering blocks are correctly coded (4159/5583). It is in great shape, but needs to be rebuilt by someone who knows what they're doing.
The carb I am staring at right now is a "DZ" Holley 780 LIST-4053. My understanding is that it is original to a '69 Z-28. The carb itself, though, is 100% identical to the LT-1 Corvette carb. The dual metering blocks are correctly coded (4159/5583). It is in great shape, but needs to be rebuilt by someone who knows what they're doing.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 276
Likes: 31
From: Brant County Ontario
I may have answered my own question with some additional research...
I think I'm looking for a car that DOES have the "kickup" gussets near the doglegs that were added in mid-1968 but DOES NOT have the "hydraulic bumper shock" tubes that were added in 1975?
If I'm creeping in on the right answer there, I'm still trying to find the big difference between an auto and 4-speed frame...
I think I'm looking for a car that DOES have the "kickup" gussets near the doglegs that were added in mid-1968 but DOES NOT have the "hydraulic bumper shock" tubes that were added in 1975?
If I'm creeping in on the right answer there, I'm still trying to find the big difference between an auto and 4-speed frame...
'm doing the opposite swap - my '69 frame for 800 is going under a 73.
In a month or so I'll probably have the two frames side by side as I transfer components over, I'll know for sure then
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,908
Likes: 129
From: Fredericksburg Virginia
I learned that the frame in question is not a "complete" frame, but is the rear half of a '69 and the front half of something else. A '75, I think.
He was going to put in the removable crossmember as well as the z-bar mount, making it a custom frame specifically for me.
The guy has done this many times and is very comfortable in his work. I'm not UNCOMFORTABLE in it since the frame would CERTAINLY be straighter than the one under my car now. But this development has made me take a step back.
The offer on the table is $1,800 with me trading away a few of my 'stored' parts such as my old LT-1 heads and an original 1969 "DZ" code carb I have. I think I could get some off for my original drop-base air cleaner assembly with original wing nut. There may be a little more wiggle room in there.
This has prompted me to want to take a step back and see if there are any other options out there.
If this is a VERY VERY nice frame other than the fact that it is two frames welded together, I may be OK with it. It doesn't bother me, really, but I just have to feel comfortable that it was done right.
I need to compare that thought to paying $1k to $3k more for a "one piece" frame that isn't the best of two frames, but one frame that is in OK shape.
Decisions.
Any input?
He was going to put in the removable crossmember as well as the z-bar mount, making it a custom frame specifically for me.
The guy has done this many times and is very comfortable in his work. I'm not UNCOMFORTABLE in it since the frame would CERTAINLY be straighter than the one under my car now. But this development has made me take a step back.
The offer on the table is $1,800 with me trading away a few of my 'stored' parts such as my old LT-1 heads and an original 1969 "DZ" code carb I have. I think I could get some off for my original drop-base air cleaner assembly with original wing nut. There may be a little more wiggle room in there.
This has prompted me to want to take a step back and see if there are any other options out there.
If this is a VERY VERY nice frame other than the fact that it is two frames welded together, I may be OK with it. It doesn't bother me, really, but I just have to feel comfortable that it was done right.
I need to compare that thought to paying $1k to $3k more for a "one piece" frame that isn't the best of two frames, but one frame that is in OK shape.
Decisions.
Any input?
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
Likes: 105
From: hernando fl
just a few random thoughts...first from what I can come up with a 4 speed frame has the trans crossmember welded to the frame , the auto version is a bolt in crossmember, with no provision for a z-bar.
second , I have been looking around and 68-72 frames seem to be a bit more spendy than the later frames. there must be some differences in the post 72 frames that would cause the price drop that I don't know about.
third, and this is strictly my opinion , a welded frame repaired or two welded together to make a good one would not be a problem with me. however I would take a lot of time and effort checking it out for dimensional correctness. it could be one of those things that will make your life miserable if there are some boo boos that found their way in to the finished product.
second , I have been looking around and 68-72 frames seem to be a bit more spendy than the later frames. there must be some differences in the post 72 frames that would cause the price drop that I don't know about.
third, and this is strictly my opinion , a welded frame repaired or two welded together to make a good one would not be a problem with me. however I would take a lot of time and effort checking it out for dimensional correctness. it could be one of those things that will make your life miserable if there are some boo boos that found their way in to the finished product.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 61
Likes: 10
From: Michigan
I am in the process of stripping down the chassis of my 68 vert due to a broken drivers side kick up. It's rusted out and I dont want to put a band aid on it so I looked into the frames at Vette Products of MI. I live about 25 miles away so I drove over and walked through his shop.
He bought all the tooling from GM and makes factory spec C3 frames and many other chassis parts. He has some nice frames stacked up and will make any adjustments you request. I plan on ordering a manual frame with removable cross member and adding the dog leg supports that the late 68's came with. More than I want to spend but I dont want any problems going back together and only want to due this once.
Jesse 982
He bought all the tooling from GM and makes factory spec C3 frames and many other chassis parts. He has some nice frames stacked up and will make any adjustments you request. I plan on ordering a manual frame with removable cross member and adding the dog leg supports that the late 68's came with. More than I want to spend but I dont want any problems going back together and only want to due this once.
Jesse 982