original imperfections
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 780
Likes: 68
From: wantagh ny
original imperfections
This weekend I attended a car show in PA. It was an NCCC. The car was judged exterior, interior and engine compartment. All went well but I was confused after leaving and looked at the judging sheets. The judge took off points for extra glue which was around the seal on the hood. This was glue over on the black which was done at the factory. I was always told never remove any imperfections that the factory did as it keeps the car original such as chalk marks. I did tell the judge that they are original but he didn't pay me any mind. Can anyone tell me if I was correct or should I take it off? It was a very small piece of glue.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 780
Likes: 68
From: wantagh ny
Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. I took my son to carlisle and he wanted to enter his first show. He took a first in class and was happy. The club that was running it were fantastic people and we had a great time. But that one judge didn't want to hear it. I didn't have the heart to tell him I had been a judge since 1995. But it all good and my sons happy.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,667
Likes: 3,123
From: Shamong, NJ
NCCC judging is a far cry from that of the NCRS. NCCC is more of a beauty contest, while NCRS is based on "as it left the factory" originality.
NCRS judges are generally (but not always) more knowledgeable, and would normally let the sloppy application of weatherstrip adhesive go, as it is typical of how the factory applied it. Judges at NCCC, AACA, ISCA, local club and parking lot shows, are usually looking more for perfection, when judging a car, or what is commonly referred to by the NCRS as "over restoration".
Finishes that are expected to be seen on an NCRS restoration, will often receive a deduction at most other shows. Don't worry about it, it's not a perfect world, and if your son is happy, what else really matters?
NCRS judges are generally (but not always) more knowledgeable, and would normally let the sloppy application of weatherstrip adhesive go, as it is typical of how the factory applied it. Judges at NCCC, AACA, ISCA, local club and parking lot shows, are usually looking more for perfection, when judging a car, or what is commonly referred to by the NCRS as "over restoration".
Finishes that are expected to be seen on an NCRS restoration, will often receive a deduction at most other shows. Don't worry about it, it's not a perfect world, and if your son is happy, what else really matters?
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
This weekend I attended a car show in PA. It was an NCCC. The car was judged exterior, interior and engine compartment. All went well but I was confused after leaving and looked at the judging sheets. The judge took off points for extra glue which was around the seal on the hood. This was glue over on the black which was done at the factory. I was always told never remove any imperfections that the factory did as it keeps the car original such as chalk marks. I did tell the judge that they are original but he didn't pay me any mind. Can anyone tell me if I was correct or should I take it off? It was a very small piece of glue.
gb is correct. People showing Corvettes for the first time are often confused by this. Factory original is generally more valuable and appreciated, but if you get your car judged at a show that judges originality, it will score differently than it will at a show that judges "condition."
Dont get shook up over it, just understand the rules ahead of time.
I have a buddy who has a Bloomington Gold Certified car, which dominates at shows that values originality. He routinely gets killed at shows that are "beauty contests." Thats the way it is.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 780
Likes: 68
From: wantagh ny
I do agree. I have judged at many clean and shine shows. The thing that got me was the fact I told the guy it was an original glue mark and if he was taking off for glue then why didn't he take off for chalk marks from factory. But like you guys said at least the kid got a first.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,667
Likes: 3,123
From: Shamong, NJ
I do agree. I have judged at many clean and shine shows. The thing that got me was the fact I told the guy it was an original glue mark and if he was taking off for glue then why didn't he take off for chalk marks from factory. But like you guys said at least the kid got a first.
I can't really speak to why the chalk marks on the frame, would be okay in the judges view, but it may be because the factory put them there on purpose. There's a reason for the chalk marks to be there (shim count), while there was no real reason for the glue being visible, except for maybe poor workmanship.
I'm not trying to defend this method of judging, and I'm not knocking it or the NCCC either. It's just a different take on the way Corvettes should appear or be judged.
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Brett Foote
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
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From: Crossville TN
If the car is to be judged "as it came from the factory", why aren't all the plastic protection sheets and packing materials required to achieve 'judging perfection'?
Oh....I know, I know....the dealership removed them and prepped the car for the new owner. OK, then....why aren't the dealer-installed items acceptable for judging?
Hmmmm.... a real conumdrum, to be sure....
Oh....I know, I know....the dealership removed them and prepped the car for the new owner. OK, then....why aren't the dealer-installed items acceptable for judging?
Hmmmm.... a real conumdrum, to be sure....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 6
From: Nevada City California
if the car is to be judged "as it came from the factory", why aren't all the plastic protection sheets and packing materials required to achieve 'judging perfection'?
Oh....i know, i know....the dealership removed them and prepped the car for the new owner. Ok, then....why aren't the dealer-installed items acceptable for judging?
Hmmmm.... A real conumdrum, to be sure....
Oh....i know, i know....the dealership removed them and prepped the car for the new owner. Ok, then....why aren't the dealer-installed items acceptable for judging?
Hmmmm.... A real conumdrum, to be sure....
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Correct. The NCRS guidelines say the car is judged as it would have been received by the new owner following required dealer new car preparation in place for the model year.
Correct. Dealer installed options were not part of the required new car preparation.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,931
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From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
mine is exactly the way it left the factory, after i got done with it. the judge was a bit of a jerk but he isn't right. as long as your happy thats what maters.
