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It'll work fine, lots of info about it being used on other forums.
I'm pretty sure it will, but I don't take anything for granted, until it's running, right there in front of me!
Also, ran into a snag of sorts. Regarding the 14mm to 3/8 adapter. Nobody, but nobody makes one. Tried Parker even, Graingers, on line for hours and cannot find an adapter for a 14mm 1.5 female to 3/8 NPT. A lot of teases, but no dice. If anyone can point to a link, with a PN, that I can actually buy, it'd be appreciated!
If I can't find the adapter, I'm going to end up, welding a 14mm bung onto either the radiator, or I'm going to core out the 1/2" manifold plug and weld it on there.
I'll be real curious as to how it actually works out! I hope it's a simple and neat as I'm making it out to be!
I too am curious to see how this all works out, I'd like to do the conversion as easy and cheaply as possible. Is there going to be room for an ac compressor?
I too am curious to see how this all works out, I'd like to do the conversion as easy and cheaply as possible. Is there going to be room for an ac compressor?
Yep, it's already there. Right on the upper passenger side of the bracket. In fact, one came out of there and I still have it, but I'm running a bypass pulley. The pulley is the big one on the upper left, as you're facing the front of the engine. This is the new style compressor (at least from the late 80's) versus the 60's and 70's style. If you look at the passenger side bracket when I pulled it, you can see the big empty spot, where it should've went.
Yep, it's already there. Right on the upper passenger side of the bracket. In fact, one came out of there and I still have it, but I'm running a bypass pulley. The pulley is the big one on the upper left, as you're facing the front of the engine. This is the new style compressor (at least from the late 80's) versus the 60's and 70's style. If you look at the passenger side bracket when I pulled it, you can see the big empty spot, where it should've went.
Also, ran into a snag of sorts. Regarding the 14mm to 3/8 adapter. Nobody, but nobody makes one. Tried Parker even, Graingers, on line for hours and cannot find an adapter for a 14mm 1.5 female to 3/8 NPT. A lot of teases, but no dice. If anyone can point to a link, with a PN, that I can actually buy, it'd be appreciated!
If I can't find the adapter, I'm going to end up, welding a 14mm bung onto either the radiator, or I'm going to core out the 1/2" manifold plug and weld it on there.
SCORE!!!
After hours and hours of flogging the Internet, I stumbled on to a small Company, that custom makes fittings and they just happened to have two fittings of exactly what we need! Nobody and I mean nobody has these. I tried Parker, Graingers, Applied, SealCo and many others, even calling them and nobody makes a 14.5mm x 1.5 Female to 1/2 Inch NPT Male Adapter! They're on the East Coast and I'm having the fitting air freighted. It was $35 for one fitting!
Also getting a quote for 25 of these little puppies (they aren't cheap!), so if you do this mod, you won't have to weld a 14mm to some kind of pipe or your radiator, be it steel or aluminum. This is going to thread in, right in the front of the Intake Manifold!
This is going to allow you to use the BMW dual temp sensor in the single location on the manifold, without any additional plumbing necessary. The only other dual temp sensor is for the Audi's and VW's and they're not even threaded! There are no American made, Dual Temp Sensors, with NPT threads, period.
We're going to fix that. I've also getting a quote for 25 of these little puppies (they aren't cheap!, but they'll be cheaper than $35!), so if you do this mod, you won't have to weld a 14mm to some kind of pipe or your radiator, be it steel or aluminum. This is going to thread in, right in the front of the Intake Manifold!
So you won't have to do this: (See the bung, welded on side of radiator?). Nice example of how it hooks up electrically, though...
Update: Fuel lines got plumbed last night. We went through, where the AC compressor used to be. Ditto for the hard lines for the heater. If I ever decide to put the AC back in this car, we'll just have to redo it, but for now, it's a very nice install. We're flogging on it, to get it done, for a C3 Cruise on Saturday. The engine should be going in tonight. Will post pics later on.
PS: We plan on putting in the engine complete, with accessories!
Fuel Line Installed: Now we're trying to find a -10, 45 degree AN fitting in 1/2" NPT for the lower heater hose connection. Worse, comes to worse, we loop the hose back into the engine. Don't need a heater, right now, anyways and Saturday is fast approaching (C3 Corvette Run to Wrightwood).
Thanks for asking! Yes, there are updates, but right at this exact moment, we're trying to wire up the 'new style' CS alternator to the 'old style' system, so we can break in the cam. It's all installed. We were trying to make the Wrightwood Corvette Run, Saturday, but little things kept needing attention!
Almost there and I will come back with photos and diagrams in a day or two. So far, so good though. The Volvo relay works perfectly and the BMW dual Temp sensor, will turn on the fans when you ground the output out of the sensor.
OK, we stopped work, because our local Starter/Alternator guy, gave us the wrong plug for the CS Alternator and we're going to get the right one tomorrow. I'll document that too, wiring included. So I've got time to update this thread, as we flogged like dogs all weekend on Sassy, from Thursday PM, to tonight!
Onto the Radiator notes.
You will need to fill the side gaps of the Camaro Fan Shroud for maximum efficiency. The top and bottom are a tight fit, but the fans will pull in air from the sides, instead of from the radiator, reducing the air flow through the radiator.
Note gap on side of shroud.
What we used to fill that gap. Heavy duty, oil, gas and just about everything resistant, the PK Safety foam knee pads and standing pads. Home Depot pipe insulation will die here. Note how we cut the sides off the large cushion. It fit perfectly and it's survived two years of heavy use at the shop. It can survive sitting on the radiator, as far as I'm concerned.
Note the fit of the foam on the sides. We were way too busy to take a pic in process and our buddy Cliff was putting it together, while we were doing other stuff. We also cut the tabs off the side, as they were interfering with the side-to-side fit, by a mere 1/8".
How we attached it to the top. I highly recommend either carefully fitting the shroud to the radiator beforehand and making sure it's absolutely centered! I'd even venture to say, that you should cut a slot into the top mounting bolts, because I actually have a very slight contact with the back of the A-arm on the passenger side and 1/8" on the driver's side!
Attaching to the top, we used the flange that came on the aluminum radiator. We lucked out on how close it fit.
Another view of the top:
How close it is to the A-arms. It is a friction fit and I'm sure it's going to wear slightly. It is not pushing into it at all. Just a very slight rub and I'm not going to worry a whole lot about it. It's pretty amazing that it fits so close, to begin with. Talk about luck!
How the radiator attaches at the bottom. We used these radiator attachment ties to secure the radiator at the bottom. You can get them at Pep Boys or Jegs. If you're going to test fit the radiator, leave these off, till last, as you have to put them through holes you'll drill in the shroud and then through the radiator itself, using the anchors. It's
pretty sturdy.
There are two relays you're going to install. The Volvo Relay and the Relay that kicks it on, when the ignition is turned on. Here's a really good educational site, that uses the exact same relay as an example. This must be a common one, because somebody gave us three of them and said we'd need them one day and he was right! This is my first time, wiring relays from scratch. I was a relay virgin until now.
They all have the same five pin setup, with 85, 86, 87, 87A and 30 as the terminals and the wires seem to be the same color for the pig tail, so we wired it up like so: Forgive the sloppy writing on the colors, I used MS Paint. Don't have Photoshop yet, too busy feeding that C3 out in the Shop.
Compare the above, to what I did. Exact same relay, even the pattern is printed on the side, so you could see what does what. Same as the tutorial and once you see that the purpose of the white wire is to kick the internal switch from the blue wire into 30, coming from the battery, to the yellow wire coming out of 87. It's that easy. The white wire is hooked up to any lug on the fuse box, that will only provide power when the key is on. You can run the white wire, right into the hole in the firewall underneath!
Here we go. The relay and the wiring diagram on the side, plus the wires coming out. Of course, you have to splice them to the Volvo Relay and the Blue, will go through a 30 amp inline fuse, that you should purchase and right into the 12V junction right next to it. That's the the little metal box, with the two bolts sticking out of it. It's always live too....
I pulled the relay off the top of the firewall, so you can see the diagram printed (sometimes embossed) on the relay and the colored wires coming out of the pig tail.
A view of the bottom. If you pulled that plug, each terminal is marked. It's almost stupid proof, if you're careful.
When splicing the soldered wires (and I highly recommend soldering, versus crimps), make a nice neat little loop, because some of these, will only be five or six inches long. Leave enough for a 'service' loop, in case you have to pull out either relay.
Now onto the outputs. I went out and brought red and green wire in a 12 foot packages, in 14 gauge, to keep the same color coming out of the Volvo relay and ran it down the driver's fender, along with the vacuum lines for the headlights. Leave a good two feet extra at the other end! You're better off, too long and trimming it short.
At the other end, I made sure which wire, was going to go where. There are four wires for the fan harness. Black and Gray are Grounds and White and Blue are Power. Wire either Green or Red, to either Blue or White, it's one fan or the other. I used purple wires, one solid and one purple with a white tracer in heavy gauge to solder up to the Black and Gray ground wires from the fan harness. Then I routed it out, in the space, right next to the radiator and soldered eyelets on them, and attached them to the same ground on the radiator support, that the headlight harness uses.
Power wires out from Volvo Relay to Fan Harness Part I
Power wires out from Volvo Relay to Fan Harness part II
Ground wires, coming out from side access to headlight ground (driver's side, front of radiator support).
Now the last part. Wiring up the BMW dual temp sensor. Supposedly, Brown is ground. I have three pig tails and the two of them have different color wires, but all three have a common brown on the 'bottom' or flat part. So I wired it up that way. I soldered a black wire to the brown, then two yellows, one with a black tracer coming out of the Volvo relay to the Purple and the Black with White Tracer.
I ran them along the manifold all the way back to the Volvo Relay, soldering them to the two 'input' wires (which are yellow too) and then, putting the black ground wire from the temp sensor and the relay pigtail to a common ground on the intake manifold.
The BMW dual temp sensor/switch, with 14x1.5 mm to 1/2 inch NPT adapter.
Grounding both the kickoff relay and the temp sensor to the manifold, picture 1 of 2.
Pic 2 of 2, grounded to the bolt below the distributor. It was grounded to the bolt on the windshield motor, but that proved to be a poor ground, despite having continuity.
You'll know it works, when you have the key on, you can ground one of the yellow wires after removing the plug off the BMW sensor and putting a test lead into it and grounding it. A fan should kick on. If not, you've got problems. The only single doubt is about the brown wire on the BMW sensor being the ground. If not, then it is easy enough to resolder the wires to the BMW sensor, they are small and easy to get to.
Y'all are following along as we build this, so be understanding of the results, we'll correct, what we need to correct, but so far, so good. The fans kick on, when I ground the yellow wires. Because that grounds the relay inside the Volvo Relay and puts power to the fans and that's how it works. The Volvo Relay gets it's power from the other relay, but completes the circuit right through the fan, to the ground and the current flows, turning the motors and you've got fans.
We're going to fix the alternator plug problem tomorrow and hopefully, finish breaking in the cam on the fresh rebuild.
Gotta go home! Shower, sleep, work and then the shop. The cycle never ends!
I just realized, from looking at photos, that the PN for the relay, is printed right on top of it. Its a Siemens VF4 4511 and you can get them on EBay as an example, for $7 or so.
Update: The Volvo relay won't work after all, unless you have a two speed fan. It is one or the other, not both! So now, we are going to go with two separate relays instead. There are a lot of variations on the theme, so I will be researching what works, applying that to my Corvette and reporting on the results.
It's the same relay, just adding another one and routing the wires a bit differently.
Thanks for the tip on the second relay (the dual fan positive leads on my '34 SBC truck are getting too warm with just one relay----two relays/two fuses should solve the problem!)
Thanks, DG! The setup actually works and one of the fans actually does, what it's supposed to do , so the install was a success, we just have the wrong relay. It is from your mistakes and failures, that you learn and that's what I'm doing here. I am already knew how to test them, replace them, but had never, installed one. The Volvo relay was all of a whopping $14, but understanding them and wiring them up: Priceless!
Tell me about it! It took a month for me () to realize that I needed a one-way diode wired into the system so the pusher and puller fans/relays would work in sych with the A/C clutch on my '34 SBC street-truck.......
The car came off the stands early this evening and I drove her around. Not happy with the engine builder, but notwithstanding that separate issue (or issues), I'm going to finalize the serpentine belt install and tell you how it went.
It was a successful install and everything is running quietly and smoothly. There is no more belt squall or that screeching noise when you're hitting higher rpms. The fans work really well too , though I have one of them on a SPST switch, spliced and installed in the C3.
I will finalize this thread, with the replacement of the Volvo Relay, with another standard relay and a simple wiring diagram.
09-15-2014, 05:16 PM
The engine should be going in tonight. Will post pics later on.
) to realize that I needed a one-way diode wired into the system so the pusher and puller fans/relays would work in sych with the A/C clutch on my '34 SBC street-truck.......