Does anybody know which kind of weatherstrip have been used for the back window mod :



I read somewhere the window was from a Monza, so I looked for Vega Weatherstrip, but couldn't find image of the profile.

My own mod will use a custom shaped window, so I'll have to resort to universal weatherstrip and I want to know which kind of profile shape did they used.

 

That's my favorite C3 of all time right there.

 

Erratum on the rear window, it's from a Vega

 

Gad...you caught it... Ecklers invented it, then made famous by Motion,

Then the one with the Monza hatch back rear window was the uber cool Eckler hatch vette,





I guess you are asking what weather strip to use, lots of that will depend on what kind of channel you make, if your window is custom shaped then what you have to find is something that will make the bends without wrinkles, ironically JC Whitney did sell lots of generic wind shield window seals, kit car people have used them for years....

 

Yep, just caught the info in a post of yours.

The channels are yet to be made, they'll fit the chosen sealing solution.
Plan 1: Butyl tape, just like stock.
Plan 2: small U shape seal, that would stay in the channel, flush to the body. I have one in my stock, but it only offers 1/16 of padding, would it be enough to prevent the window from cracking?
Plan 3: Find compatible weatherstrip, universal or not.
Plan 4 : Cast the weatherstrip. Doable, but long.

Now that I'm about to build the channel, I feel I could spend a little more processing power on making sure I've considered all reasonable possibilities.

 

Hey Denpo-

I'd go to a local shop that does Pick-Up Truck sliding window conversions - I'm thinking they would have all sorts of types of universal weatherstripping.

Another thought - is look at the weatherstripping the BMW/M-B & VW used pre-mid 90's. It's a neat design- u channel fits around the glass- then you roll in the trim that holds it in place-and yes- you can get the trim in back or chrome-

 

I doubt that the window, or anything associated with that window, is from a Vega. Motion's first Phase III GT was a 1969 model Corvette which is before the Vega was introduced.

 

This remonds me of a fastback Mustang.

 

That rear window in the ugly color motion car in this thread appears to be from a Vega, I have no idea however anything about the first motion built car, if you post a picture of the documented first motion car we can see what rear window it runs....but just because it's a 69 model year doesn't mean the mods were done in 69...

 

I've seen a couple 68 to 72 motion cars with 75 to 79 bumpers on them not necessarily built on the year it was made

 

The cars you had seen may not have been Baldwin-Motion cars. All the Phase III GT cars with the window were invoiced through Baldwin Chevy and some were in 69. The run of 10/11 cars were through 71 and were built on new cars, not used cars that were brought to them by customers which is what you may be describing. There was a good article in the June 1992 VETTE magazine featuring this car and some others. I also have the original CARS Magazine with this car featured in it. I am not convinced its a Vega window. The window is too flat. I will look to see the issue and if its from 1969 the Vega theory is toast.

The original Phase III GT that debuted in the 1969 Auto Show did not have the window treatment but it was already in the works.

On a side note, this particular gold car was recently at an auction and did not sell as I recently read online. They have been advertising it as "unrestored". What constitutes a restoration. I know for a fact that this car has been painted at least 3 times during its life. I have been researching the phase III cars and phase III GT cars for a long time. I have seen this car when it was painted blue, then silver, then back to gold. This car is easy to indentify because of the shelby side scoops. Also, the black stripe is not as it was when original. It is supposed to be much wider over the gas tank area. I have original pics of the car when new which clearly shows this. Also there are supposed to be clear headlight covers over the headlights. Joel has a tendency to change these cars when he restores them, or in this case restores it but calls it unrestored???....

It could be nova rear glass. That's more flat.

 

At first I thought that the big weatherstrip way was a better way, more waterproof and whatnot.
Now I'm slowly realizing it's actually the cheap way to provide waterproofing AND support.
I will build the frame anyway, even if only for structural integrity, so my plan A (actually #2) is confirmed as THE plan.
I guess the case is closed.

You guy can carry on the search of the source of the back window

 

Problem is as humans we read or are told something and we sometimes believe it on desire or faith alone,
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof...
Take a look around the net, lots more "Motion" cars than motion ever made and I am including parts they sold to people who built their own.

I have an old "Cars" magazine that while they do not name "Motion" they do a whole story trashing their engine work...so...
I also read too many stories contradicting the last story I read on things like Motion, Yenko, and Greenwood for example.
I sadly do not put 100% merit in magazine stories ( or what I read on the net ) I hope in most cases the writers are sure of what they say and are not biased and do not deliberately spew misinformation but sometimes that isn't the case and they spew and even when they believe they have it right meaning well doesn't mean a person is not simply wrong,

I have read several times on the net ( remember what I said about stuff we read ) that those first 10-12 motion built phase vettes ( why no exact number? ) had an opening hatchback rear glass for more space, I have never seen a picture of a open rear window on any phase car, perhaps you have and can post me a picture. I have also seen somewhere that "Motion" said all the phase parts were created by them made by them including all glass...hum,

I have to beg forgiveness of the motion gods but I never liked the phase cars because of what I thought ruined the vette the datsun z headlights, I realize this was done to further the 68's dino styling but for whatever reason I can't warm up to those lights on a vette.

So I hit up a friend who was involved with Ecklers in the day,
He said on that "custom" rear clip what motion used the original hole might have been vega but he didn't know he said it was sold with plexi rear glass, and to also keep in mind Motion might have modded the part. is the rear window glass or plastic on the phase cars?

 

If the color changed it isn't a restore right.

 

I am not a Motion know it all but, I do have a special fondness for those cars due to the fact that my parents took me and my brother to Motion Performance when we were kids. It was 1970 when we visited and I clearly recall a Classic Copper 1970 Z28 in one of their service bays being converted into a Phase III Camaro. In the showroom was a pearl yellow Phase III GT Corvette and it did have the fastback rear window treatment. It was not any type of opening hatch set up but, was a fixed window treatment. Being 1970; I doubt that the window was from a Vega but, the window very well could have been plexiglas. I was 8 years old at the time and don't recall paying any attention to what the window was made of; I was too excited about the car itself to care.

If you really want to know more about the Motion, or most any other Supercar, cars of the time head over to Yenko.net. There are people there who worked on, and promoted, those cars back in the day. There are also people who own some of the cars who could answer any question that you may have.

 

The gold car was first shown in the April 1970 cars magazine.
How much lead time to get the mag into print? That's probably not a vega window.

And as to why no exact number? Why would there be. This was not something that was cared about at the time. Joel has the records but doesn't give out the numbers because he wants to charge ridiculous money to look anything up. I believe the 10 or 11 cars rare enough that if there was 12 it wouldn't really matter. As long as Joel is being honest with his information.

The GT never had an opening rear window.

Just because you read it does not make it true. How many times have we seen things totally incorrect in print. You also could have MISread it and now confusing people further saying the rear window might have opened that is why research is critical. I did my research and found the magazine. Now others can look it up for themselves. Pictures tell a thousand words but can also be confusing and misleading.

Vega rear windows have a curve, the GT looks flat but who knows. The Gold car is considered a 1970 by the way.

I have been on the yenko.net board for a long time. I like the motion cars and understand why some don't like them. I like them for many reasons not the least of which is having seen them when they were driving around since I grew up and still live 10 minutes from where the original shop is.

I am no expert (I don't know who is as some self proclaimed experts have many facts wrong and don't like being told right from wrong) but I have been looking carefully into these cars for over 30 years and have some great pics of yet to be found cars that were running around here on the island back in the day.

 

Ed427vette,

I said that after asking a friend there at the time the window is likely Plexiglas not Vega, does that make you all warm and fuzzy now? lol,
did all 10,11 ??? have the custom rear window?

The true number matters a great deal when it seems almost every other day someone is trying to sell a custom as "Motion" and then there are "Motion" built cars and customer built cars, which might be motion parts or Ecklers or Brunos or??? parts.
Charging big amounts to give someone documentation and or being honest?!?!?!?!
Really, could it be that anyone in the aftermarket custom world would not be a pillar of honesty?
I recall seeing posts from time to time saying if a person has enough $$$ their custom will become a "Motion" car, not sure what that means..
You didn't really read my last post on this did you...I'm on your side no need to pot meet kettle on me,
I said the same things, and agree just because YOU read it doesn't make it fact.
Pictures in the world of custom cars do not always tell the whole story, a person could make a perfect clone of this mold gold car and in pictures it would look the same doesn't make it real Motion or even made from their parts.

Sadly too many "old timers" who I believe mean well in some or too many cases embellish their stories, too many forums are a soap box for chest thumping so again like you said we can't believe all we read no matter who said it.

You have all these great pictures and you are holding out on us why not post them?


1996Z15,
I love that kind of stuff but you are way better than me, as a young child I recall my dads go-karts and racers and going to all kinds of shows and meets but to say I knew if one certain car even had a rear window would be beyond me, but my light has never been full voltage. lol
I read, many time online the rear was made to open but you know what they say about stuff we read. ( perhaps the writer meant to open up the rear cargo room )
Sadly, this forum is about all I can handle at the moment, I don't even keep up my own forum,
I do not believe in the case of "Motion" cars there will ever be 100% info on them just because and I will end that there at risk of upsetting and offending motion worshippers.


80-vette
"Restored" in the world of something like ncrs is the way it left the factory, in the case of motion cars they are customs worth far more due to the motion hypecult than a stock car of that same make model,
So to restore a motion car it would in my mind have to be 100% the way it was first built by motion, and I question if even mr motion recalls all details and I am told over and over by motion fans there is no paperwork much, or the little there might be is very expensive.
Why pay 100's of K's for a real motion when if that is the custom you like build a clone for 10-15k. ( Example I just bought a set of bb Motion valve covers 50.00 )

Well, I for one think we did a great job of pulling a big old DB Cooper on this thread.

 

I actually did post pics of some of the cars on the yenko.net board a long time ago. Marty Schorr emailed me asking me to send him pics but to be honest I don't think much of Joel's attitude and that's why I stopped posting my pics. I don't want to get too off topic but very quickly Joel likes to threaten to sue if you use the word motion but the fact is his cars are based on a GM trademark and has no standing although he still likes to send c&d letters.

Now as far as I know not all 11 or so cars had the rear window. Atbleast 1 does not and that was the first one. Pictures from the 1969 Autorama Car Show show the first GT car, the prototype and that car does not have the rear window or single headlight nose. The pictures tell the story. It's a orange car, black stripe, narrow band around the rear. Stock taillights also. Going through many magazine articles from the late 60's and early 70s you can see several of the Gt cars. Back in the 80s myself and a good friend tried to piece together these cars. We tried to figure out what was out there and possibly made. Nobody cared back then. We visited Joel a few times. Then when people started paying stupid money for these cars starting in the very late 80s Joel started picking our brains. We saw a pic of this gold car but painted blue. Owners were sending Joel pics of there car to see if he might have built it. This was before he started seeing dollar signs. Of course being the only one with the Shelby scoop my friend immediately recognized it. Nobody would have known enough to fake it at that time. Joel did not recognize the car.

If you pay enough attention you can start to pick out very subtle details even in old photos to recognize specific cars. I build small scale replicas for a living. That's the reason I wanted to research these cars so bad back then, back when I could see better. I was building models of these cars. And I also know certain BM cars are not restored the way they were originally built by BM.

As far as every other day someone claims to have a motion car is no different then claiming to have an L88 or even a L71. It comes down to what you can prove. Of course the numbers mean something NOW. But back when they were being built it was only about numbers of dollars at the end of the day.

Clone cars of motion cars are also no different than a clone L88 or whatever you like. But pictures do tell quite a lot when you know what to look for. But that is also just a piece of proving or disproving a cars history. Everything can be replicated. Everything. So you need to do your due diligence and homework.

And of course who really knows if you hand over enough money will you get a letter. Anything is possible. It's not like GM can verify anything about those cars. They can't even tell us what THEY made.

I like the cars but don't need to own one. The models on my shelf are good enough....and I don't need to document them....

 

I just don't know.

I understand that just painting a car does not necessarily mean its restored. But to me unrestored kinda makes me think untouched. It's like what does " numbers matching " really mean. It's all crap.

The article should state partially restored maybe. Then again, it was an internet article written by someone not really being held accountable for any misrepped facts. All tied into what we have been discussing.

 

The two pictures you posted, the orange and black cars with the hatch back kits. Have you ever seen the Ecklers gold car with the kit? It was probably about 73/74 i think and saw it on the cover or Vette Vues mag and said i need one of those so i got the L88 hood, the zl1 flairs and the Monza head light kit but the Hatch back kit and the Wagon kits where on back order.

Question, do you have any pics of the Ecklers gold car that was in Vette Vues mag ? Would greatly appreciate one if you do. Have been searching for ever and can not find any info about it. Ecklers was not much help either, they used to be a lot more friendly when they where up her here in Illinois, just saying.

About the Baldwin cars, Keystone Chevy in Chicago sold a few but they where modded in local body shops i was told, friend worked for Nickey's and said there was also bogus Baldwins there also. Are there any id tags on the Baldwin cars to identity them?


You are correct about JC Whitney generic wind shield windows seals, used one on out 38 Pontiac.