Finding original block?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
Finding original block?
I have a non-numbers-matching late 69. It has a Chevy crate 350 HO, a 1980 Quadrajet, a composite leaf spring and probably other "upgrades". (Just bought a '74 Tilt/Tele and when it's fully checked out, I will want to trade for a 69. I plan on converting to power windows too.)
I go back and forth as to whether I should just go ahead and "Foosify" the car or if I should try to return it to originality.
What would be the chances of me finding the original block somewhere? Is it a pointless unicorn hunt? If the original block is now machine screws and rebar, is "numbers-matching" completely out of the question or is there a range of 1969 blocks that would be unquestionably OK when installed?
Thanks,
Chris
I go back and forth as to whether I should just go ahead and "Foosify" the car or if I should try to return it to originality.
What would be the chances of me finding the original block somewhere? Is it a pointless unicorn hunt? If the original block is now machine screws and rebar, is "numbers-matching" completely out of the question or is there a range of 1969 blocks that would be unquestionably OK when installed?
Thanks,
Chris
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,972
Likes: 6,197
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
I have no idea what unquestionably OK means.
My gut tells me that "unquestionably" doesnt exist.
There's one block out there thats original and numbers matching. Do the math on finding it.
As Mike said, there lots of blocks that could be decked, broached and restamped and maybe they might pass and maybe they wont, for a list of reasons.
Getting the numbers to "match" is the easy part.
My gut tells me that "unquestionably" doesnt exist.
There's one block out there thats original and numbers matching. Do the math on finding it.
As Mike said, there lots of blocks that could be decked, broached and restamped and maybe they might pass and maybe they wont, for a list of reasons.
Getting the numbers to "match" is the easy part.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
OK, that's sorta what I was wondering.
I wasn't sure if "numbers matching" meant a digit-for-digit match to the VIN or if, say, any December 1969 block would be considered a match by NCRS standards.
Chris
I wasn't sure if "numbers matching" meant a digit-for-digit match to the VIN or if, say, any December 1969 block would be considered a match by NCRS standards.
Chris
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
I would forget about "matching numbers." What NCRS is concerned about is if the engine block in the car is typical of factory production. They would be looking at the casting #, the casting date, the engine suffix and assembly date, the VIN derivative, and finally if the stamp pad looks like the original broach marks.
If you bought a motor from a similarly optioned small block built in the month of December 1969, then the only points you would lose would be for the VIN derivative (because it is not typical for another car's VIN # to be stamped on your motor). But, all else would be right, so to speak.
Here is the NCRS mechanical section score sheet. You can see, if you used my scenario above, you should only lose 25 points out of a possible 350 points.
http://www.ncrs.org/njc/68-72%20Scor...2%20Mchncl.pdf
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,454
Likes: 328
From: Indy Indiana
anything can be done with a thick enough wallet.
If your goal is bragging rights at a car show, or judging points, or resale, then it can be done. people do it all the time. but the effort is truly enormous to do it right and correctly and done by the right person. Then you will need the correct heads, intake, carb, exhaust, air cleaner, water pump, hoses, clamps, and so on... its not just the block. getting a date coded block is only a 1st step in the total process.
I suggest you funnel the money and effort into improving the condition of your car.
you will be much happier than spending 4 figures to just put a stamp on the engine pad.
If your goal is bragging rights at a car show, or judging points, or resale, then it can be done. people do it all the time. but the effort is truly enormous to do it right and correctly and done by the right person. Then you will need the correct heads, intake, carb, exhaust, air cleaner, water pump, hoses, clamps, and so on... its not just the block. getting a date coded block is only a 1st step in the total process.
I suggest you funnel the money and effort into improving the condition of your car.
you will be much happier than spending 4 figures to just put a stamp on the engine pad.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
NCRS wisely avoids the term 'numbers matching' like the plague. No two people agree on the meaning.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
Thanks everyone for the great info and opinions. I'll take a stab at finding out what happened to the original block (if nothing else it'll add to the car's story) and keep my eye out for deals on a December small block.
It's good to know that getting close is possible, even if it's a huge effort. Meanwhile I'll focus on the things I don't need to shop for.
@LeMans Pete, you da man!
Chris
It's good to know that getting close is possible, even if it's a huge effort. Meanwhile I'll focus on the things I don't need to shop for.
@LeMans Pete, you da man!
Chris
Last edited by ChrisMiami; Nov 10, 2014 at 04:35 PM.
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
In addition to it being the correct casting number and having an appropriate casting date, the block must have originated at the Saginaw foundry and not Tonawanda or St. Catherines. Many fakers have found out the hard way..................
I hope you understand that you're in for a lot of time, money and trouble with very little return on investment.
I hope you understand that you're in for a lot of time, money and trouble with very little return on investment.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,071
Likes: 147
From: S Nevada
I have a non-numbers-matching late 69. It has a Chevy crate 350 HO, a 1980 Quadrajet, a composite leaf spring and probably other "upgrades". (Just bought a '74 Tilt/Tele and when it's fully checked out, I will want to trade for a 69. I plan on converting to power windows too.)
I go back and forth as to whether I should just go ahead and "Foosify" the car or if I should try to return it to originality.
What would be the chances of me finding the original block somewhere? Is it a pointless unicorn hunt? If the original block is now machine screws and rebar, is "numbers-matching" completely out of the question or is there a range of 1969 blocks that would be unquestionably OK when installed?
Thanks,
Chris
I go back and forth as to whether I should just go ahead and "Foosify" the car or if I should try to return it to originality.
What would be the chances of me finding the original block somewhere? Is it a pointless unicorn hunt? If the original block is now machine screws and rebar, is "numbers-matching" completely out of the question or is there a range of 1969 blocks that would be unquestionably OK when installed?
Thanks,
Chris
Could you find a correct era block and heads? Yes. Could you machine the the deck and re stamp the block? Yes. So does this make your corvette a numbers matching car??????? Lots of them are out there. But what does this really, seriously bring as far as value at resale? 1k? 2K? 3k? Can you back it? It has been said that there is far more "insert car" for sale than was ever produced. I say, if your all about the numbers, best start with a real numbers car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,192
Likes: 343
From: Allenton Wisconsin
As soon as it starts to snow the 12/69 coupe will be getting it's new engine. The 101,000 mile OEM engine will be moth balled for any future owner of this car if they ever see any reason to rebuild and reinstall. I'm sure I'm not the only one with OEM engines laying around. I've saved every hard part that came off this car including the bolts. Even have the OEM block from the 6t8. T
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
Hey Yellowbird,
That's exactly where I'm starting. I know who owned it prior to the guy I bought it from, and I'm pretty sure he/she would have been who replaced it (the registration card was put inside the 350 HO crate engine's booklet).
I have thought about reaching out to them to ask about the car's history as they know it and why they sold it, but I guess I've been uncomfortable with intruding on their privacy. I guess it can't hurt to write a letter though, right?
In my head, I have formed a story about a guy like me who was really enthusiastic about making a fast, cool car until he woke up one morning to find it half under water and that just took the wind out of his sails and he gave up and dumped it. But I totally made that up...
Another thing I'd like to know is why the pattern of body repairs makes it look like someone went around the car swinging a sledge hammer and a pick axe (first owner's bad divorce?)... Does not look like any auto accident damage I've ever seen.
Chris
That's exactly where I'm starting. I know who owned it prior to the guy I bought it from, and I'm pretty sure he/she would have been who replaced it (the registration card was put inside the 350 HO crate engine's booklet).
I have thought about reaching out to them to ask about the car's history as they know it and why they sold it, but I guess I've been uncomfortable with intruding on their privacy. I guess it can't hurt to write a letter though, right?
In my head, I have formed a story about a guy like me who was really enthusiastic about making a fast, cool car until he woke up one morning to find it half under water and that just took the wind out of his sails and he gave up and dumped it. But I totally made that up...
Another thing I'd like to know is why the pattern of body repairs makes it look like someone went around the car swinging a sledge hammer and a pick axe (first owner's bad divorce?)... Does not look like any auto accident damage I've ever seen.
Chris
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Miami, FL
Then again, an LS1 with coil packs and a Quaiffe sequential gearbox would be really fun to drive!
Thanks,
Chris
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
The original engine on my car was destroyed by the first owner. He thought the 'oil pressure' gauge was an 'oil quantity' gauge and saw nothing wrong with 5 psi at 70 MPH.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
Wonder if it could be repaired? I've heard of some who go to extreme lengths to save the original block.