I need some opinions from the more experienced C3 owners. I finally found the C3 that I've been looking for. I had it professionally inspected (NCRS judge). I was told the car was in "exceptional" shape but for the windshield frame. I haven't looked at many of these cars this closely through the windshield, as I am still learning about this era of Vettes and what to look for.

I could use some help gauging the severity of this rust. The inspector said he thought the pictures looked worse than it really was. What's rust, what's sealant and what is old, warped trim? By the way, the car is out of state, so I'm a plane ride away from being able to put my eyes on it. I will, before the transaction is done, but need to make a decision wether it's even worth the plane ride.

 

You're fortunate you got to see this up front instead of getting a surprise after the check has cleared.

I've seen worse, and as far as repairs go this is pretty easy. I'd be sure to ask how everything is below because water runs downhill.

 

A rookie suggestion would be to have the kick panels removed and have photos taken of the "pockets" that contain the pillar-to-frame bolts.

 

How much is the car? Did the judge check the birdcage and frame for rust and collision damage? If so did it have any issues? If it was good down stairs, and the effected area is only upstairs, then I think the car is still well within being repairable. This could be an early catch, weather stripping probably is worn and is causing issues. My '72's birdcage is still exceptionally clean and still has all of the green primer on it. Just remember that no matter what, this car is going to require work. That is still true even if you bought a fully restored C3. It is a classic, and they always need something. So plan your budget for not only doing immediate repairs, but also future repairs that might pop up out of the blue. Don't be afraid to walk away from a car if things aren't working out. GM made more than one C3.

Post some more pictures when you get the chance.

Best of luck!

 

How serious does that look? Be careful is what I would say. Let me show you. In your picture you can already see that there is something going on. You could be looking at something like this. Fixable sure but why if you can help it. In my case this was all hidden with no sign of a problem like what you see. Good luck
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You can see in the last picture no signs of damage. I can show you the finished pictures if you are interested.

 

I agree with rvzio...rust is like an iceberg... if you can see some of it, chances are there`s much more below that you CAN`T see! I also agree it`s a VERY good idea to look farther down... the front edge of the doors, and the front mounts behind the kick panels.
Windshield frame can be fixed, but it takes some work.

 

Also see if he will pull off the inside windshield trim as it is pretty easy to do.

 

Hi C,
I agree with all the things people posted….. there's no reason to not remove the interior trim to get a better look at the windshield header. There's no reason for you to spend your money with this uncertainty.
There has to be a lot of rust formation to have forced the trim pieces out of alignment as far as the ones shown in your pictures. They didn't 'warp' because of 'time'.
Also, that's a non tinted windshield which MAY mean it's been replaced and thus who knows what might be going on under there. I'd want to know about that windshield too.
BE VERY CAREFUL!
Regards,
Alan

One more thing… in your post you say he said "he thought the pictures looked worse than it really was ".
Did this person look at the car or at the pictures?

 

If I were you, I'd be looking for something closer to home. There are plenty of nice Vettes available w/o this uncertainty and added travel costs, not to mention you don't know what rust is. Just my 2 cents...

 

Been there. In my case I had the header and both corners replaced with parts from a donor. It wasn't a huge deal though beyond what I could handle myself. Had to have a shop do the repair. You can get a pretty good idea of where it stands if you remove the interior trim, pillar and header. At least you'd have an idea of what you're in for.

The problem is much worse if you find rust at the bottom of the windshield frame, underneath the surround panel.

 

Agree with all of the above,

My 2 cents and experience; I pulled windshields out of my 72 and 68 in both cases to go ahead and fix some visible rust in one place only for each and discovered 3 & 4 fair sized holes in each. I was able to cut repair patches and my buddy welded them in so all ends well. So, I have come to the conclusion that most all C3's have some windshield frame rust, maybe just not visible yet, and yes, once you take the windshield out, I am certain you will find the problem to be bigger than seen now. So, all is doable with time and money, I would just factor this in your offer if you proceed. And, if anybody can tell me how to get a windshield out without cracking it, you are my hero, so figure in a new windshield in the equation too. Hope this helps and GLWB. Also, if the rest of the C3 looks great, this would not be a show stopper for me, just a negotiating point. And, if you really like the rest of the Corvette, a plane ticket will no doubt be the best investment you make on this one, worst case, you get a weekend vacation to hopefully a nice destination!

 

He actually took the pictures for me. He said he thought the pictures made it look worse than what he saw in person.
I'm really struggling with this one. Overall good car and good price, just the unforeseen with this particular item. The inspector went through this car pretty well, spending around 4 hours on the inspection, gave me a detailed verbal report and is mailing the written report to me with additional photos. I'm leaning towards known devils are better than unknown ones. I need to just figure out what's going on under that trim and the extent.

 

I myself am looking for a nice drive 70-72 coupe, I have what I hope is an inside track on one, but I'll have to wait it out.

My question is...Should an inspection always include taking the inside windshield trim off as well as the kick panels and access panels in the back to inspect the body mounts....? I understand the owner should be made aware of this before hand as well as the inspector and if either refuses just keep looking an appropriate owner/inspector....?

Brian

 

Hi Brian,
Taking a car apart that not yours is NOT going to sit well with an owner especially if he doesn't want you to know what's under there.
If I saw a car that didn't give me any reason to wonder I guess I could forgo the look… but if I were suspicious I'd back away unless I was comfortable in buying a car that could well need birdcage repair.
There's a reason the car in C's picture looks the way it does. The original soft trim has a metal form it's made on. That form can rust. We could be seeing trim rust or windshield frame rust. I'd want to know which while the money was still in my pocket.
Regards,
Alan

 

Interesting. Back to my original photos, am I seeing this correctly? In order from top to bottom: outer chrome trim, frame, windshield sealant, interior trim. The reason that I ask, is that the majority of the problem appears to be below the sealant. Is that more infinitive of the metal on the trim rather than the frame? Either way I will do more investigation, just trying to learn a few things first.

 

my 2 cents is that you will not know what is going on under the trim until you take the windshield out or at least that is my experience. Also, rust expands 7 or 8 times the thickness from original steel. Good luck with the search.

 

yes, water runs downhill, if there is windshield frame rust, then there has been a sealant problem and I have never NOT seen a subsequent rust out of the lower bird cage,, which is an extraordinary complicated fix. this car will have bird cage rust. and you will have issues regarding replacing the windshield frame.. and subsequent VIN tag removal and replace and all the hassle that comes with that. you will need a jig and good welding skills ( or prepare to pay 5 figures to a shop ) unless this car is very cheap and you want such a project, then run forrest run...

some people swear that all they did was replace the windshield frame and that the birdcage was fine.. I would not believe them.

I also expect that your seller will not let you disassemble the panels of the car to look for rust.

 

Hi C,
I sent you a PM. Did you see it?
It does look like water has been laying IN the soft trim and rusted it.
What concerns me is how lumpy the birdcage itself is AND the fact that it's black.
This MAY well mean that the header is rusty and has been painted over to try to stop or conceal the rust.
I'm not concerned about the trim at all, but rather the header.
The pictures I'll post are sort of ideal but does show what the birdcage, sealer, glass, and soft trim can look like.
Perhaps you can understand that what's showing in your pictures is concerning.
Regards,
Alan

This is what that area of the header looks like with everything but the corner casting removed.


This the a-pillar but illustrates how the various material should look and fit. This is a restored car but note how smooth the birdcage a-pillar is.

 

Not necessarily. The header on mine had rust where water collected and pooled near the point where the visor was fastened, a low spot where the corner piece and header overlapped. I had the windshield, trim, and wiper door removed. Dug all the caulk out from behind the surround, down to the bonding strip, then took photos of everything. It's possible there could be rust between the bonding strip and the birdcage beneath where it's riveted. No way to know without removing the front clip. I'd need a lot of evidence before I'd pull the clip. There are probably many cars which may have rust in this area but show clean around the windshield. My #2 body mount area was clean as well, took photos of the area.

Where I DID find rust was on the header, coming from the inside out. The shop which worked on it thought it was fine when they first pulled the windshield but found the metal was thin when they hit it with a body hammer. A few holes in the header, some thin spots on the top corners.

I say a rusted header is definitely a red flag but isn't necessarily indication of wide spread windshield frame rust. More inspection is needed. Can't say for sure without taking the windshield out, removing trim, and digging the factory caulk out from behind the surround panel.
Unfortunately I doubt a seller would allow anyone to take the car that far apart. Best a buyer may get is a look on the inside IF the owner is willing to remove the trim for inspection.

There will be some risk. If the buyer wants to be safe, hold out for one with NO rust.

 

I bought mine with no clue as to the rust issues. got real lucky on the frame and birdcage for the most part. I just had the windshield removed for paint (and the windshield was badly pitted) and found this:

Body guy sent a photo and I choked on my soda! Drove over and we took a fine wire wheel to it and it cleaned right up, no holes. Whew! According to the glass man, the wrong sealer was used and that attacked the metal, causing this rust, everything else (including the birdcage at the frame) is OK.