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454 motor & trans 31,000mi - $800

From a 1991RV. Still in the RV. Bring a fresh battery and a can of gas if you want to hear it run. bring tools to pull it or I'll carefully pull it for $100.
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Whenever I see an ad like this, I wanna pick up the phone. There was a similar ad last year for a 454/TH400 removed from a '74 Vette, the pair were priced around $1,000. Sometimes, the ads include a complete running vehicle, like an old Chevy truck, with the whole thing priced below $1500. If it's running right, a guy could afford to pull the motor/trans and throw the truck away. Most of these motors are 2-bolt, but still, the stock bottom end can probably handle 600 ft. lbs.

I just wish I had a model year where the BB was an option. It's really a lot of trouble (and illegal in my state) to drop one of these in a late C3. I sure miss my BB Vettes...

 

Hey 454Luvr,

I'm not familiar with any state law that prohibits engine size/hp/torque swap, could you please post up more information on it?

I'd be very surprised to see one?

 

It's against the law to install a motor/equipment combination that was not offered by the factory during the year the vehicle was manufactured. By "equipment," I mean emission devices, exhaust configuration, etc. In fact, it's illegal to swap a cam or even change from a single to a dual exhaust if the latter was not available from the factory in that year. The only exception to any of this that I'm aware of for street vehicles is allowance for installation of a later motor and emission equipment in a combination that has been EPA certified. You can buy motors like that from the speed companies, but they're anything but cheap.

The link below contains a small subset of the Texas statutes. Note the sections regarding "tampering" and "repair." The actual statutes are more detailed, and they include additional penalties for a person who sells an altered vehicle. Federal statutes are similar.

https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airqualit...tampering.html


Also of note (in Texas) is that the catalytic converter is considered part of the exhaust system, not an emission device, on vehicles manufactured prior to 1984. In other words, the converter must be present in order to satisfy the non-tampering statutes and must be in good physical condition as an exhaust component, but it need not be functional from an emissions standpoint.

Here's a link that describes this:

http://www.proexhausttx.com/laws.php

Honestly, I'm amazed by the number of auto enthusiasts who don't seem to be aware of any of this.

 

I think it maybe your interpretation...........

I think we are all aware of the issues tampering with exhaust systems.

Here's a quote

"An older engine may be installed in a newer chassis if all emission control systems and devices are connected, including the exhaust system and catalytic converter, and the resulting engine-chassis configuration conforms to the engine configuration of the model year of the chassis or newer. It is illegal for anyone to change a vehicle into an older configuration."

A 454 cu in. GM motor "conforms" with any C 3 chassis. NO alterations required. Simply reinstall the correct exhaust and you're golden.

I read more, later...

 

You go to any state and you will see the exact same rules.
As for Texas, primarily the three emission counties, you cannot reduce the emissions equipment from the factory. 1984 and newer vehicles must have a cat converter because it is part of the emissions equipment. Prior to 1984 it is part of the exhaust and the vehicle will not fail visual test if it is not there.
You must comply to the basic equipment if the vehicle came equipped with it.
PCV
EGR
EFE
AIR
TAC
If 84 and newer: OC
Muffler shops MUST install a NEW cat converter if they remove one, regardless of year. If you install a new exhaust at home, that's a different story.
As for selling a vehicle with altered equipment: That law has never been enforced.
If you go by the Texas rules, ALL 1974 Corvettes will fail inspection.
Mike

 

Hi Mike, Would that mean that in your state it would be technically illegal to remove, or run without the factory smog pump on say a 69 BB?

 

Technically yes if it was a 4 speed car.
Absolutely if a shop did it.
It would be hard to prove if the owner did it and it would be up to the inspection station to catch it. Then you would just fail inspection.

 

Installing a 454 in a 1982 Vette changes the vehicle to an older configuration. That's not an "interpretative" conclusion.

FWIW, the 454 was phased out in part because it's a "dirty" motor that would have required extensive R&D and additional emissions controls to meet tightened EPA standards. Add to that the new CAFE rules of the day, and it became too costly to continue. It should be evident that preventing an owner from installing one of these "under-performing" motors in a later model vehicle was the intent of the statute you quoted.

 

Are you certain an inspector can't fail a pre-'84 vehicle if the converter isn't present? I haven't seen any exemption in state or federal law that allows it to be removed. The fact that Texas considers a pre-84 converter to be an exhaust device for inspection purposes doesn't in itself allow removal. I'll just add that the legal necessity of having the converter on any vehicle that came with it, including pre-'84s, was corroborated in private correspondence with a representative of the exhaust manufacturer I linked earlier.

 

In Texas I don't think you have to pass anything but a safety inspection if your vehicle is older than 25 years. My friend has a 86 Mustang that has a different motor a big turbo and doesn't have any cats and all the emissions removed in Harris County and he passes.

 

Because it isn't generally enforced on cars that are exempt (over 24 years old) from emissions testing.

Go to any car show or cars & coffee around and you will see tons of cars with most if not all of the emissions components missing entirely.

 

They can fail an exempt car if an emissions component is missing. But it is generally considered a ******** move and virtually nobody does it. I had one shop (Lamb's Tire & Auto) fail my 1980 because it was missing a vacuum hose. I think they were looking for some reason to fail it because my wife brought it in and they thought they could sucker her into an expensive "repair". They told her it would take a couple hours to "fix" it, which would be $110 per hour plus parts. However my wife isn't stupid and asked them a few questions like what the missing hose actually was for. She said they just hemmed and hawed and didn't even know what it was for. To which her response was that if they didn't know what it was for that she didn't think they had any right to fail the car for it being missing and that she not only didn't think they were competent to repair a car, they were trying to rip her off because she was a woman. They weren't too pleased by that. I complained to Lamb's corporate, they never returned my call. I waited the 14 days for the inspection hold to clear and took it to another inspection station which passed it without even opening the hood or looking under the car -- which is exactly how inspections have always been done in the past on my C3.

I've talked to several other places that do inspections as well as a lot of other people in the automotive industry and they all pretty much agree that on older cars inspectors should give a great deal of leeway.

Anyway... Avoid Lamb's, they are crooks.

 

This is interesting. I used to be a member of one of the Texas Corvette Clubs in Bell County in the later 90's. I attended all of the local car shows and I frequently saw a DARE car (mid 90's Impala SS) that was modified to the max. I can't remember for sure but I'm wanting to say, it had a blower and headers installed in it. I just remember it was a sweet machine that drew "a lot" of attention.

Terry

 

Here is another interesting bit:
Texas law prohibits any person from selling, offering for sale, leasing, or offering to lease any vehicle not equipped with all emission control systems or devices in good operable condition. Violators are subject to penalties under the Texas Clean Air Act of up to $25,000 per violation. Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle.

A vehicle may not be legally sold if its original engine has been replaced with another certified engine but without the related emission control components. Tampering includes the failure to install the emission controls associated with an engine configuration.
http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/airquali...ng.html/#tamp3

Looks as if you sell a car without the factory emissions or non-working emissions you could be liable for a $25k fine.

But it all comes down to enforcement. Usually these regs are ignored, but not always.

 

Basically all post 1968 hot-rod cars are illegal according to the strict reading of the law. Lots of LEOs own cars that violate these laws and there is no exception made for them. There is little to no enforcement of these regulations in Texas. California and a few other states are quite different though. What I'd worry about is someone getting stopped in CA and then them getting ahold of Texas and some statist DA in one of the liberal areas like Travis, Harris or Dallas counties deciding to try to prosecute someone. So far I've never heard of it happening and hopefully it never will.

 

In 40 years I have never seen it enforced. It's mainly for used car dealers.

 

Yes, I am sure.

 

I would be concerned of selling one to someone who later moves to someplace like California and they are unable to get the car registered there. Could they come back with legal action against me for selling them a car that was basically illegal?

 

Sounds like your word against theirs. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

 

Not really Tom. It deals with the disclosure clause.
A car dealer must disclose any non working parts or issues when selling a vehicle. But there's a catch. They must disclose everything "that they are aware of". In the case of you selling a car and that happens they will go after the last inspection station and inspector. The worst thing I have seen an officer do to a car owner is remove the inspection sticker and then ticket them for "no valid inspection".