Hi,

First of all, I have to have to say that this forum is a great resource for me and that I should have read way more threads concerning frame rust before buying my C3. C3s are quite expensive here in Germany as they have to be imported and modified (lights, glass etc) to comply with local safety rules. Late C3s go for 15 to 20k €.

Anyway, I bought a 78 (originally from Alabama) a couple of weeks ago from a commercial seller who stated that the frame would only have "surface rust, nothing more". The vehicle also passed a test for cars being registered for the first time in Germany, where severe rust typically is a deal breaker. You see, a lot of rules over here...

Before buying I checked the kickpanels and windshield frame as far as I could tell with the glass still in. Looked very good, so I bought it.

Yesterday I checked the frame for rust and especially the small space between the body and the frame. I was shocked wben I saw the area before the rear wheel, i.e. the area under the #3 mount. It looks really rotted to me.

Has anybody an idea how much it would cost me to fix this? I am not planning a frame-off resto as other parts look really good, even other parts of the driver side more to the front.

Moreover I found a lot of rust which may or may not be surface rust on the inside of the frame while looking through the factory holes in that section.
Besides that frame feels solid after poking around with a hammer.

Next problem, I would have to get it done from a body shop as you need to have a special license for welding on car frames or otherwise the car will not pass the next safety test in 2 years if the fix gets discovered.
Did I mention that we have too many rules?

At the sametime it would be really hard to see some money or return the car to the dealer as I would have to proof that the seller knew about this rust issues.

I would really appreciate if you somebody would share his thoughts regarding the pics and maybe an estimate of the costs.
Hourly rates over here are more or less the same as in the US.

Thanks in advance!
Chris

 

1. frame rust is extremely expensive to fix if you are paying someone else to do it. it is not worth the effort unless you have an emotional attachment and have money to throw away.
2. what you see is probably only the tip of the iceberg. usually frame rust at the easy to see spots is also at lots of places where you can't see.
3. repairs will be escalated by what is found after the car is torn apart. bolts will break. you will need many parts which are going to be very expensive

enjoy the car for a while and then sell it.. but don't put massive amounts of money into it.

 

Hi Joe, hi Alan,

Thanks for your responses! No panic here ... Yet
Actually, I did have a look behind that panel before I bought the car. Did not take a photo as everything looked nice. Pretty much like behind the kickpanels, only slight surface rust on the driver's site. I could remove it with a slight touch from my screwdriver.

However, I might take a second look after what I discovered. Maybe the thing is rotted under the washer (I think that is what it is called in English).

Very helpful the pic of that area with the frame removed!

Why I am asking about the costs. I am planning to keep the car for a long time. As I said, a C3 is really exotic over here, way more Lamborghinis here
So basically it comes down to either seek legal counsel aimed towards returning the car or spending a certain sum and get it fixed. 2 experts for old corvettes here, about 100mls from where I live.

Of course if that sum is too high it does make sense to sell the car at a discount and buy another one. Maybe it could be fixed frame-on if it is only that area.

Regards,
Chris

 

How do the trailing arm pockets look? The area where the rear trailing arm fastens to the frame as in Alan71's picture? How does the area to the right of the upright look? The area right in front of the rear wheel?

You may want to follow this thread from a few years ago, another forum member who had some frame repair done with the body on. The frame didn't look that bad until the shop did some aggressive probing... Some repairs can be done with the body on though difficult.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...y-vette-2.html

 

Thanks for the link. Nice example for what is possible with the frame on. Might show that to the pro if I am going down that road.

Will have a look at the weekend when I get home. The area upwards looks good behind the front tire, literally no rust, but gets worse near the rear tire. However it doesnt look that bad. Tough to see which is why I didnt saw it before buying the car.

But there is also the part behind the frame (?) to the right in the picture. Really hard to see in the picture but I guess I saw a considerable rust in there.

Meanwhile I talked to the c3 expert with the body shop. He will take a look next week.

 

Chris, It sounds as though you actually looked at the car and inspected it in person. In doing so you did look in many of the problem areas that are prone to rust. Any reputable attorney will tell you that attempting to return the car would be a waste of your time and expense. You would have to prove that the seller misrepresented the car that you actually inspected. He may not have seen the rust either. From what you have described I would take the necessary steps to correct the issue. You are also correct in that you have far more regulations and inspections required in Germany than you would have here. I have never understood why antique cars imported to Europe have to modify their lights etc. The Amber rear lenses and other required mods detract from the original look of the vehicle. Good luck and hopefully the rust turns out to be minimal.

 

Well, after showing my pictures to the expert (turns out he is working on C1/C2/C3s for more than 20years) he came over with a trailer at 8pm, took the keys from my wife and is now on the way to his shop. Why wife said he was really angry because I did not contact him before buying the car. I have to say I am quite impressed

he will check it first thing tmrw morning.

Actually, under German law it might he possible to demand a fix of a severe problem if it is a commercial seller selling a car and making false statements. As I have a written answer saying "only surface rust" ... In practice typically the car is returned.

Anyway, lets wait what the expert finds.

 

Sorry, I thought you bought the car in the U.S. or Canada and had it shipped to Germany. Hope you get good news.

 

Congratulations on choosing the corvette as a hobby.

Be aware it's kinda addictive.

Old corvettes and salty roads don't mix. Folks think because of the fiberglass , it's not prone to water damage . That's quite wrong as you now see.

It's not uncommon for people who thought they checked the car good .....to,still buy a rusty example not knowing it. You have a lot of company

Anything can be fixed .i believe most frame rail sections are available for replacing rusted out areas .

I would check the mounts good , bolts , pockets , etc......don't want the body to fly off .....

Corvettes with no rust exist .....they are usually kept in a garage , by picky individuals . And can cost a lot up front .

The best corvette deal....is one somebody else did all the work .....sank the huge money and time into.

Buying cheap up front is not a good plan with corvettes in many instances .

 

Would not say I bought a cheap one, paid more like an average or slightly above average price.

So the guy checked the car for 3 hours. Quoted me a price of approx 5000-5500 USD -equivalent for the frame (disassembly, sand blasting, some minor welding etc.). From his experience it should not get much higher. Given the state of the frame he does not recommend dry-ice blasting frame-on, at least as am planning to keep the car for a considerable time.

Considering the value of these cars over here, it seams okay to me. Unfortunately, he won't be able to do it before July. Meanwhile, he highly recommends to talk to an attorney as the car should not have passed safety tests. From his experience in similar cases there should be a good chance to see some money from the dealer (or the third party conducting the safety tests for the traffic office )

 

Looks like bad surface rust to me in the pic you posted, and I don't think it is too far gone. I think it would clean up, if it's all that it appears to be.

 

Go after the dealer for selling an unfit vehicle. The faster you do it the better. Since it's not getting fixed until July you. Threaten first, tell him you and your mechanic are going to the ministry of transportation unless you get your money back.
Don't give him much time and then go file a suit against him. It is illegal in most civilized countries to sell a car that might kill you. You have everything you need to move on.

 

He checked the frame with an endoscope. Also the trailing arm pockets. No holes, but the metal is already getting thin in some areas. Might only be a question of years until it is through. And then there the parts which cannot be seen from underneath...

That is when he recommended to either do nothing or the sand blasting. Will do the latter.

 

If the trailing arm pocket/connection is bad enough that it could cause it to come apart and the back wheel coming off I wouldn't touch the car and proceed with the legal angle. You can only lose and be back where you are right now or you could get a full refund and buy yourself a rust free Vette.

 

Sorry for the confusion, trailing arm pockets look okay, it is some parts of the frame that are already getting thin.

Of course, car sits in his garage. No repair will be done until legal issues are resolved. No driving until then, too.