I might be going to look at a car this weekend, if all the stars align. It's a '71 convertible that sounds in pretty decent condition, though I've not seen pics yet so I'm going off what the seller is telling me. I want to do a thorough rust inspection on the car, or at least as thorough as he'll let me. I already know that the car is a little cosmetically-challenged, I just want to make sure it has a good base to build from. I know the areas of the frame to check, but I have some questions about the birdcage.

Is it possible to inspect the kick panel/number 2 body mount area without removing the kick panels? I have a good inspection camera with a small head, so it can snake into some pretty tight areas. I was thinking I might be able to snake it over the top of the kick panel and into the opening, but I don't know how far below the top of the panel that the opening is. I figured I could do a cursory check to see if there's anything really bad, and if so, remove the panel for a closer inspection.

I know there is no such thing a "gimme" on these cars, but if I would find that the number 2 mount area is fairly clean, is that any indicator that the number 3 mount might also be in good shape? I would think that it might at least indicate the car had led a pretty easy life, and wasn't in the weather much?

I understand that I won't be able to see much of anything on the windshield frame with the trim on, and I don't know if he'll remove it. I have looked at a few cars that had some slight rust around the windshield edges and the VIN tag area, is that any indicator of worse problems on top of the frame? I assume it probably is. If he won't pull the trim, I figure I'll at least try to look for rust flakes on the console that might fall from the windshield header, and inspect the edges closely.

Wish I had pictures or an ad to paste in the thread, but the car isn't currently for sale publicly, the seller contacted me.

Thanks!
--Mike

 

You might be able to exam the cowl area (where the front clip is bonded to the birdcage just to the outside of the wiper door) by using the camera from under the dash. Get it up on a lift to check the frame and trailing arms. You also might get a glimpse of the rocker channels. If there's any sign of serious rust negotiate hard and be ready to walk away-rust is the one item that is a real bitch to fix. Don't get "buy fever".

 

I would say you'd possibly be OK. One thing that could get you is if there was a leak on one side of the windshield and water ended up in the pocket on that one side only. That would rot out the side with the leak while the other looked fine. If the seller allows you to take off one kick panel, they certainly wouldn't have an issue with you removing the other. It only takes about 5 minutes to do, so I'd remove them both.

 

Im going to say more cars Ive inspected have had some degree of windshield rot, at least in the corners, than not. It's a design flaw. I'd still want to see what I was dealing with, and the center and end pieces of the trim come off pretty easily. I just would not find rot there to be a deal-breaker.

 

Okay, I'll plan on asking to remove the panels and trim to inspect. I think the car is priced well enough to cover a repaint, but doing much rust repair will probably put me upside down pretty quickly. Not that I won't be eventually, but I'd like to work up to that over a few years.

I have been pretty good about not getting the buying fever so far, as I've passed on a couple of cars that had issues, and were a bit overpriced. I worry that this car may suck me in though, it's a driver, and it's priced where I wanted to be. I'm going to have to practice my poker face. My wife is already saying, "this is probably the car you are going to buy".

--Mike

 

Mike
kick panel comes out with couple screws ,if you try to get behind it you would most likely break it ,also windshield trim is couple small screws and yes it can be very rusty behind each of them send me an e mail or text and I can send a picture of what might look like
Wes

 

Hi Mike,
What Wes doesn't mention is that 2 of the screws are for the ends of the lower dash panel at the a-pillars.
The passenger's side is pretty straight forward, but getting the driver's side dash loose enough to release the kick panel can be tricky….. be careful!
Also there's a flange on the upper edge of the kick panel that slips up into a groove at the bottom corner of the dash pad… again be careful.
The kick plates will need to come off to get the kick panels out.
Looking along the windshield at the a-pillars will give you some idea of their condition, as will looking at the corners of the cowl with the wiper door fully raised.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

 

How many of us selling a car would really let someone come over and start taking the trim off, remove kick panels etc. I wouldn't. I would find another buyer. I have always allowed anyone to spend as much time as they wanted with a mirror, flashlight, magnet etc. or independent inspection but no disassembly (I've never been asked either.) Most sellers aren't going to allow this unless the car is a true project.

 

If you were spending$250,000 for a Corvette wouldn't you want to check it thourghley.

 

MJ if he doesnt have pics of the areas already then I would insist on being able to visually inspect them first. Some sellers might not like this and that is thier right since they still own the car, but I can tell you that it saved me from buying what would have been a major money pit.

Short version- I found a 71 that looked great and before I handed over the money I insisted on removing the kick panels and thank god I did, they were completely rusted out with a quarter sized hole clean through.

Bottom line, its your money and there are plenty of C3s out there...Make sure your comfortable with the purchase!

 

Absolutely, I guess I was thinking more about some guy just showing up and wanting to start taking my car apart. A serious buyer that knows these cars and is not just a tire kicker is different. As Alan correctly pointed out any removal needs to be done with care and I would be the one that would do it. A few years ago I had a guy come look at a big block convertible I had for sale. He asked all the right questions and seemed like a genuine buyer. He asked for a test drive (I told him I would drive) and I gave him a spirited ride. When we got back to my house he said he loved it but didn't have any money now for a Corvette but wanted know what it would be like to drive one. Glad I didn't remove any panels for this kind of "buyer."

 

I definitely agree, it's well within the owners right to refuse to remove them, but it's also well within my right to ask. These are well known bad areas on the C3, so I probably wouldn't be surprised as a seller if someone asked me about it. I have reservations about buying a car with no idea what that area looks like. A number of years ago I was royally screwed on one of the Ducatis I bought, because I didn't request to be allowed to drain the oil, when those bikes had known serious engine issues.(think fingernail sized slivers of aluminum and flakes of chrome) Of course mine had it, which i found after a month. 4K dollars and a replacement engine later I finally had a bike to ride, and dead engine to make some man-cave furniture out of eventually.

This car is not anywhere near a concours-level restoration, it's a driver with some obvious issues, so I'm hoping he will be okay with some panel or trim removal. If he isn't, well then I guess I'll just use my best judgement based on the condition of what I can see. I'll bring the borescope along anyways, just in case I can carefully fit it into some of the areas.(under the dash up towards the cowl sounded like a good suggestion made earlier) The price of the car is actually pretty reasonable, so even if I find some issues I might be able to fix them without getting hurt too badly. That is, as long they aren't BIG issues.

I really appreciate all of the info that everyone has provided, hopefully this one goes well, if not, then I guess I'm still on the hunt for that right car. I think I'm only on car number 6 and a year and a quarter of searching at this point.

Thanks again!
--Mike

 

Put some white towels on floor under dash and give doors some good closes, check for crud.

 

You might just ask the seller the last time the windshield was replaced and if there was any windshield frame damage. If you can see a little rust, you can bet it is worse where you can not see.

IMHO, if you are buying from a knowledgeable and honest Corvette owner, then they will already know that you are interested in all of these potential rust area and be prepared to give a good answer. Or if the seller is uninformed, then you explain the risk areas and why the concerns and then price accordingly if the seller will not let you look. If they give you a shady answer, well there is your conclusion I think.

Hope this helps and good luck with the hunt!

 

I looked at a nice local '74 for a member here and was allowed to take off the kick panels. They looked great and I took pictures of that area, the engine stamp pad and other areas. The member ended up buying the '74 and everyone was happy.

 

I'm with you. No way in hell is someone tearing my Corvette apart to look for rust ETC. I have NEVER ask the owner of any of the cars I bought to take parts off. There are many ways to check for rust without removing things. Feeling up under the top windshield trim looking at the windshield posts & the cowl area will tell you a lot. The frame under the Corvette will usually tell you how rusty all the metal is.

 

I understand what you are saying about the frame condition being somewhat of an indicator of the overall condition of the car, but can you explain what "Feeling up under the top windshield trim" is? Can you get your fingers under the trim without removing it? I've looked at a few convertibles, and I don't remember there being much of a gap there. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

 

If there is a lot od rust on the windshield frame it will push the trim pieces out& when you rub behind the trim you can feel the rust & some will come off in your hand. The 2 sides of the frame are what you need to worry about. If they are rusted out which you can see through the glass I have saw cars the it cracked the windshield. Some C-3'S especially from the coasts can have a nice frame but rusty windshields because they weren't completely sealed at the factory as sometimes there were gaps in the dum dum under the chrome trim.

 

I was able to get an inspection camera up and over the kick panels of the '72 I bought about a year ago...I was also lucky in that the seller had a lift and I did get to inspect the undercarriage very well. He did however refuse to let me pull the kick panels or window trim. If you are familiar with the birdcage there are areas that can be seen at the outside edges of the A-pillars and thru the windshield.....Spend some time looking at rusted cages and identify the edges that can been seen and how much rust is present in those areas on bad cages.

Good luck...
Brian

 

you adjust the price paid based on the condition of the car.. what you can see and what you cannot will justify a risk factor.. you decide what that risk factor is and adjust the price accordingly if that risk factor meets your requirements.

have the conversation between buyer and seller before you meet. that will decide what you can and cannot do as part of an inspection and then decide if that meets your requirements.

when I sell, I already have plenty of pics of all the potential problem areas, your seller should too because he is getting the same questions over and over again from potential buyers.