Numbers Matching?
11-26-2016, 11:07 AM
#1
Numbers Matching?
I just bought my first corvette, I have been wanting a stingray since before I was able to drive. I found a great looking 1974 Stingray with a 454 Big Block. I knew this wasn't a show car, but I was expecting that it might need some attention.
I bought this from a classic car dealer and was told in the title, description and salesman that it was numbers matching. Again, this is my first corvette (classic car of any kind), and maybe I am missing something. I am just looking for some advice.
I've got a picture of the Vin and raised raised casting numbers on the engine block (back near the firewall). There are two pics attached from the red engine block. I also attached another picture of stamped number on the passenger side of the car (black metal).
Thanks in advance for your help
I bought this from a classic car dealer and was told in the title, description and salesman that it was numbers matching. Again, this is my first corvette (classic car of any kind), and maybe I am missing something. I am just looking for some advice.
I've got a picture of the Vin and raised raised casting numbers on the engine block (back near the firewall). There are two pics attached from the red engine block. I also attached another picture of stamped number on the passenger side of the car (black metal).
Thanks in advance for your help
Last edited by twistedbelly; 11-26-2016 at 11:09 AM.
11-26-2016, 12:18 PM
#3
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
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Hi TB,
Welcome!
FIRST Corvette!
Good for you!
When speaking of "numbers matching" folks are often referring to the 2 sets of stamped information that was placed on a 'pad' that's part of the engine block and located just forward of the right side valve cover and head.
This information indicates when the engine was assembled and in what 'configuration' and secondly the sequence number of the vehicle it was first installed in.
So take a look there!
Your photo shows the Vehicle Identification Tag which was affixed to each car on the production line. Your car was the 8933 rd car built for the 74 model year.
Your engine photo shows the 'casting number' for the block.
Regards,
Alan
Here's an example:
The upper stamp identifies an engine assembled at the Flint plant (in this example for a sb motor), on January 7, 1971, and configured as a 270 h.p. engine intended for a car with a 4-speed transmission.
The lower stamp indicates it was installed in the 6589 th 71 Corvette built.
Welcome!
FIRST Corvette!
Good for you!
When speaking of "numbers matching" folks are often referring to the 2 sets of stamped information that was placed on a 'pad' that's part of the engine block and located just forward of the right side valve cover and head.
This information indicates when the engine was assembled and in what 'configuration' and secondly the sequence number of the vehicle it was first installed in.
So take a look there!
Your photo shows the Vehicle Identification Tag which was affixed to each car on the production line. Your car was the 8933 rd car built for the 74 model year.
Your engine photo shows the 'casting number' for the block.
Regards,
Alan
Here's an example:
The upper stamp identifies an engine assembled at the Flint plant (in this example for a sb motor), on January 7, 1971, and configured as a 270 h.p. engine intended for a car with a 4-speed transmission.
The lower stamp indicates it was installed in the 6589 th 71 Corvette built.
Last edited by Alan 71; 11-26-2016 at 01:03 PM.
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marshal135 (11-26-2016)
11-26-2016, 12:35 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Welcome to the forum and world of Corvettes. And welcome to the world of matching numbers...its going to take a while to pick up on everything, the definitions of what "matching numbers" really means and what is actually most important.
For the most part "matching numbers" (I'll just us MN as I will use the term often) is a term most people improperly use to describe or to infer the engine, trans and rear are original to the car. But that is not always true, even if the car has matching "cast" numbers. You will also hear "all MN" but that would mean the alternator, starter, carburetor, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, etc should match as well since they all have specific part numbers and date codes that would make them match, or not match as well.
If you want to know if your engine is original you will need to take a picture of the hand stamped pad in front of the head on the passenger side. (EDIT, Alan has a great pic above of what im talking about) They will also have to correspond to the cast date code on the side of the block as well as the casting number which you have a picture of. The number on the engine block should have a partial matching VIN number to your car of its original. The trans should also have the same partial VIN. the only other part that should have a partial VIN would be the frame. All other parts can "match" if the part number and date code is correct. The rear is only date coded and stamped with the ratio code but has no VIN but if its correct its most likely original.
Do you have any original paperwork?
Hopefully the dealer did not lie to you too bad. If your engine trans and rear are original born with then your good. If anything else matches (I'm sure you will find parts that do and are original) then that's a plus. I'm saying this because all this should have been checked BEFORE you paid for the car! There was a recent post by a person who just bought a corvette and was told it was matching, but he was lied to.....it happens.
Try to load some pics. A '74 big block is pretty cool.
Good luck,
Ed
For the most part "matching numbers" (I'll just us MN as I will use the term often) is a term most people improperly use to describe or to infer the engine, trans and rear are original to the car. But that is not always true, even if the car has matching "cast" numbers. You will also hear "all MN" but that would mean the alternator, starter, carburetor, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, etc should match as well since they all have specific part numbers and date codes that would make them match, or not match as well.
If you want to know if your engine is original you will need to take a picture of the hand stamped pad in front of the head on the passenger side. (EDIT, Alan has a great pic above of what im talking about) They will also have to correspond to the cast date code on the side of the block as well as the casting number which you have a picture of. The number on the engine block should have a partial matching VIN number to your car of its original. The trans should also have the same partial VIN. the only other part that should have a partial VIN would be the frame. All other parts can "match" if the part number and date code is correct. The rear is only date coded and stamped with the ratio code but has no VIN but if its correct its most likely original.
Do you have any original paperwork?
Hopefully the dealer did not lie to you too bad. If your engine trans and rear are original born with then your good. If anything else matches (I'm sure you will find parts that do and are original) then that's a plus. I'm saying this because all this should have been checked BEFORE you paid for the car! There was a recent post by a person who just bought a corvette and was told it was matching, but he was lied to.....it happens.
Try to load some pics. A '74 big block is pretty cool.
Good luck,
Ed
Last edited by ed427vette; 11-26-2016 at 12:37 PM.
11-26-2016, 12:51 PM
#5
Looks like this is your car ...
https://classics.autotrader.com/clas...ette/100739705
this is what is was before above ...
http://classiccardb.com/chevrolet/55...t-rod-ls4.html
In the 2nd set of pictures, the pad shows a engine build of..
T1108CWR which decodes to Tonawanda, Nov 08,1973 and CWR is a LS4 with automatic trans.
14S408933 matches to your VIN
548924 appears to be the rebuilders stamp
The C3 Registry shows a Nov 13,1973 birthday ...
... So, the numbers are matching at this point.
I notice the 2nd seller(1st pictures) did some rework to the engine compartment. Smog is gone, and newer valve covers added.
Looks like a fun car ... enjoy it.
https://classics.autotrader.com/clas...ette/100739705
this is what is was before above ...
http://classiccardb.com/chevrolet/55...t-rod-ls4.html
In the 2nd set of pictures, the pad shows a engine build of..
T1108CWR which decodes to Tonawanda, Nov 08,1973 and CWR is a LS4 with automatic trans.
14S408933 matches to your VIN
548924 appears to be the rebuilders stamp
The C3 Registry shows a Nov 13,1973 birthday ...
... So, the numbers are matching at this point.
I notice the 2nd seller(1st pictures) did some rework to the engine compartment. Smog is gone, and newer valve covers added.
Looks like a fun car ... enjoy it.
Last edited by Lindstrom; 11-26-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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twistedbelly (11-26-2016)
11-26-2016, 01:02 PM
#6
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
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Hi L,
You're right!
The photos show a pretty nifty bb Corvette!
BIG fun to drive!
Regards,
Alan
You're right!
The photos show a pretty nifty bb Corvette!
BIG fun to drive!
Regards,
Alan
11-26-2016, 02:56 PM
#7
Hi TB,
Welcome!
FIRST Corvette!
Good for you!
When speaking of "numbers matching" folks are often referring to the 2 sets of stamped information that was placed on a 'pad' that's part of the engine block and located just forward of the right side valve cover and head.
This information indicates when the engine was assembled and in what 'configuration' and secondly the sequence number of the vehicle it was first installed in.
So take a look there!
Your photo shows the Vehicle Identification Tag which was affixed to each car on the production line. Your car was the 8933 rd car built for the 74 model year.
Your engine photo shows the 'casting number' for the block.
Regards,
Alan
Here's an example:
The upper stamp identifies an engine assembled at the Flint plant (in this example for a sb motor), on January 7, 1971, and configured as a 270 h.p. engine intended for a car with a 4-speed transmission.
The lower stamp indicates it was installed in the 6589 th 71 Corvette built.
Welcome!
FIRST Corvette!
Good for you!
When speaking of "numbers matching" folks are often referring to the 2 sets of stamped information that was placed on a 'pad' that's part of the engine block and located just forward of the right side valve cover and head.
This information indicates when the engine was assembled and in what 'configuration' and secondly the sequence number of the vehicle it was first installed in.
So take a look there!
Your photo shows the Vehicle Identification Tag which was affixed to each car on the production line. Your car was the 8933 rd car built for the 74 model year.
Your engine photo shows the 'casting number' for the block.
Regards,
Alan
Here's an example:
The upper stamp identifies an engine assembled at the Flint plant (in this example for a sb motor), on January 7, 1971, and configured as a 270 h.p. engine intended for a car with a 4-speed transmission.
The lower stamp indicates it was installed in the 6589 th 71 Corvette built.
11-26-2016, 02:59 PM
#8
Looks like this is your car ...
https://classics.autotrader.com/clas...ette/100739705
this is what is was before above ...
http://classiccardb.com/chevrolet/55...t-rod-ls4.html
In the 2nd set of pictures, the pad shows a engine build of..
T1108CWR which decodes to Tonawanda, Nov 08,1973 and CWR is a LS4 with automatic trans.
14S408933 matches to your VIN
548924 appears to be the rebuilders stamp
The C3 Registry shows a Nov 13,1973 birthday ...
... So, the numbers are matching at this point.
I notice the 2nd seller(1st pictures) did some rework to the engine compartment. Smog is gone, and newer valve covers added.
Looks like a fun car ... enjoy it.
https://classics.autotrader.com/clas...ette/100739705
this is what is was before above ...
http://classiccardb.com/chevrolet/55...t-rod-ls4.html
In the 2nd set of pictures, the pad shows a engine build of..
T1108CWR which decodes to Tonawanda, Nov 08,1973 and CWR is a LS4 with automatic trans.
14S408933 matches to your VIN
548924 appears to be the rebuilders stamp
The C3 Registry shows a Nov 13,1973 birthday ...
... So, the numbers are matching at this point.
I notice the 2nd seller(1st pictures) did some rework to the engine compartment. Smog is gone, and newer valve covers added.
Looks like a fun car ... enjoy it.
11-26-2016, 03:07 PM
#9
Welcome to the forum and world of Corvettes. And welcome to the world of matching numbers...its going to take a while to pick up on everything, the definitions of what "matching numbers" really means and what is actually most important.
For the most part "matching numbers" (I'll just us MN as I will use the term often) is a term most people improperly use to describe or to infer the engine, trans and rear are original to the car. But that is not always true, even if the car has matching "cast" numbers. You will also hear "all MN" but that would mean the alternator, starter, carburetor, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, etc should match as well since they all have specific part numbers and date codes that would make them match, or not match as well.
If you want to know if your engine is original you will need to take a picture of the hand stamped pad in front of the head on the passenger side. (EDIT, Alan has a great pic above of what im talking about) They will also have to correspond to the cast date code on the side of the block as well as the casting number which you have a picture of. The number on the engine block should have a partial matching VIN number to your car of its original. The trans should also have the same partial VIN. the only other part that should have a partial VIN would be the frame. All other parts can "match" if the part number and date code is correct. The rear is only date coded and stamped with the ratio code but has no VIN but if its correct its most likely original.
Do you have any original paperwork?
Hopefully the dealer did not lie to you too bad. If your engine trans and rear are original born with then your good. If anything else matches (I'm sure you will find parts that do and are original) then that's a plus. I'm saying this because all this should have been checked BEFORE you paid for the car! There was a recent post by a person who just bought a corvette and was told it was matching, but he was lied to.....it happens.
Try to load some pics. A '74 big block is pretty cool.
Good luck,
Ed
For the most part "matching numbers" (I'll just us MN as I will use the term often) is a term most people improperly use to describe or to infer the engine, trans and rear are original to the car. But that is not always true, even if the car has matching "cast" numbers. You will also hear "all MN" but that would mean the alternator, starter, carburetor, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, etc should match as well since they all have specific part numbers and date codes that would make them match, or not match as well.
If you want to know if your engine is original you will need to take a picture of the hand stamped pad in front of the head on the passenger side. (EDIT, Alan has a great pic above of what im talking about) They will also have to correspond to the cast date code on the side of the block as well as the casting number which you have a picture of. The number on the engine block should have a partial matching VIN number to your car of its original. The trans should also have the same partial VIN. the only other part that should have a partial VIN would be the frame. All other parts can "match" if the part number and date code is correct. The rear is only date coded and stamped with the ratio code but has no VIN but if its correct its most likely original.
Do you have any original paperwork?
Hopefully the dealer did not lie to you too bad. If your engine trans and rear are original born with then your good. If anything else matches (I'm sure you will find parts that do and are original) then that's a plus. I'm saying this because all this should have been checked BEFORE you paid for the car! There was a recent post by a person who just bought a corvette and was told it was matching, but he was lied to.....it happens.
Try to load some pics. A '74 big block is pretty cool.
Good luck,
Ed
Thanks for the help
11-26-2016, 03:43 PM
#11
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Westminster Maryland
Posts: 30,173
Likes: 0
Received 2,878 Likes
on
2,515 Posts
Hi tb,
"I guess that's where my confusion is coming from. Is there a connection between the casting number and the vin? I had been hearing things that the last 6 of vin should match the number on the block."
Blocks were produced for certain periods of time and the 'casting number' on the block identifies the block but also loosely identifies it because of the period of time it is known to have been produced.
There's also a 'casting date' on the block which identifies the date the block was cast. This narrows down the cars it could conceivably have been installed in.
That 'casting date' is typically used to determine the time period that block could be found in a car….. certainly that 'casting date' can't be AFTER the car it's in was produced, and it's typically thought that blocks were used in cars WITHIN 6 months of the date they were cast. (There are a few exceptions to that.)
Regards,
Alan
Here's a link to an article about the GM casting procedure you might find interesting. It was written by John Hinkley and published in Corvette Enthusiast. It appears on a Camaro site.
http://www.camaros.org/pdf/cast_codes.pdf
Here's an example of a casting date on a sb engine… L310… December 31, 1970. The casting number comes into play here because this HAS to be 1970 because blocks with this casting number …010... were not being cast in 1960 nor in 1980.
"I guess that's where my confusion is coming from. Is there a connection between the casting number and the vin? I had been hearing things that the last 6 of vin should match the number on the block."
Blocks were produced for certain periods of time and the 'casting number' on the block identifies the block but also loosely identifies it because of the period of time it is known to have been produced.
There's also a 'casting date' on the block which identifies the date the block was cast. This narrows down the cars it could conceivably have been installed in.
That 'casting date' is typically used to determine the time period that block could be found in a car….. certainly that 'casting date' can't be AFTER the car it's in was produced, and it's typically thought that blocks were used in cars WITHIN 6 months of the date they were cast. (There are a few exceptions to that.)
Regards,
Alan
Here's a link to an article about the GM casting procedure you might find interesting. It was written by John Hinkley and published in Corvette Enthusiast. It appears on a Camaro site.
http://www.camaros.org/pdf/cast_codes.pdf
Here's an example of a casting date on a sb engine… L310… December 31, 1970. The casting number comes into play here because this HAS to be 1970 because blocks with this casting number …010... were not being cast in 1960 nor in 1980.
Last edited by Alan 71; 11-26-2016 at 03:52 PM.
11-26-2016, 07:24 PM
#12
Very cool. I'm kinda partial to 74 's ....LOL
If you got the original Rochester Quadrajet with the car . I would hold on to that mother . The 74 BB original numbers matching Carb are very scarce for your car..and expensive as heck when one shows up....btw .. It's a good Carb for your LS4 .
If you got the original Rochester Quadrajet with the car . I would hold on to that mother . The 74 BB original numbers matching Carb are very scarce for your car..and expensive as heck when one shows up....btw .. It's a good Carb for your LS4 .
Last edited by LS4 PILOT; 11-26-2016 at 07:34 PM.
