Easy Mike

The NCRS judging process, including blocks and pad stamps, is published and available to any one. Order a copy.

Greg

Phil it is NOT illegal to re-stamp your block.

gbvette62

The NCRS could announce tomorrow, that they're never going to judge another stamp pad, and nothing would change.

With or without the NCRS, there are still going to be people willing to pay a premium for a car with a matching number engine. As you said, "many engines are changed because of necessity.". This is why people are willing to pay a premium for matching numbers, or what they perceive to be matching numbers.

The matching numbers "madness" isn't limited to the NCRS, or Corvettes for that matter. Plenty of Camaros, Chevelles and other cars are running around with restamped blocks too.

I knew people who were restamping blocks, back in the 70's. This was when the NCRS was a brand new organization, and most people hadn't even heard of them.

Contrary to what a lot of people on this Forum seem to believe, the NCRS isn't the cause of all of the evil in the world.

Tonio

If you get your original engine machined and decked, why do you need the numbers restamped onto the pad??? You already know it's original, so why restamp it??

maj75

Because no one else will believe that the engine is original.

There is no reason to have the numbers removed when the block is decked. A good machine shop can preserve the numbers.

The13Bats

Okay so blocks can be restamped good enough to fool experts
Since this is possible why would any block stamp carry any weight, its a matter then of trust and faith in the seller,

Greg

Exactly!

joewill

simple answer: most aftermarket stamps are older, done with the wrong font's sizes and wrong spacing and on top of a wrong pad surface,, grinded or decked, or stamped onto a wrongly dated block. and done cheaply, by your small town engine shop..

most are somewhat easilly detectable and nowhere near the quality of the gentleman that is the subject of this thread, who charges well into 4 figures... which very few people will pay.

not everybody is an expert. the fake stamp ( good or bad) may have been done 5 owners ago and the last 4 owners might have been oblivious.

its all until the pendulum swings either back toward detectable or the other way toward undetectable regarding how they can make it look typical factory vs how hard it is to detect.

cv67

always been of the opinon at a point it wont matter the car either says corvette on the fenders or it doesnt.
Very few hav eto have it & even know how to tell anymore
Bet the majority of guys that claim they have original this or that dont, & just dont know any better. Same with "no hit" or xxx mileage.
Everyone and thier brother disconnected or turned back speedos back in the day


unles the #/ncrs is really your thing its a waste of energy

Procrastination Racing

The whole reason why "original engine" was valuable was gone once cars became restored. Now the "value" is something else.

Originally, the value of an original engine Corvette was that if the car and engine appeared to be in good condition, then it hadn't had the living crap run out of it. Because back in those days, people did just that to Corvettes and the engines blew as a result. Often a car could be "cleaned up" and a fresh rebuilt engine installed, and passed as a good car, where in reality everything on it, but the new engine, was a hair away from breaking. The original engine was an indicator that the car had been well cared for or at least driven easy.

After a car is restored, it should be "new" again. Truly restored means everything is like new, so you have a new car. What happened before has no relevance in reliability or performance. Amazingly, people bought them to drive back then, not store in a garage to watch appreciate in value.


Today, original motor is an indicator of rarity and value like a rare coin, rare painting, or other collectable. And equally, they are counterfeited just like those are.

Unless you are willing to put the research to verify this truly is the original, unless you are willing to pay collector prices, and unless you are really into high level collecting, going for original engine cars only is foolish. Does an original 350-350 hp run better than a freshly built 350-350 hp? Does an original L88 run better than a fresh L88 built from all over-the-counter pieces?

So you have to ask, are you buying this car to drive and enjoy?

Or are you buying it to store and watch appreciate in price?

Buying an original engine to drive a lot is foolish, because all it takes is a few seconds of oil failure and you can have a rod through the block and your investment is gone forever.

Do you carry rare coins in your pocket? Do you take rare guns into the brush to hunt? Do you drive rare cars to the shopping mall?

cv67

good point;some get too carried away with the original thing, a worn out block honed witha drill, new rings but everything else worn? Lots of that out there youll never know before its too late

There was a member here who recently posted a rebuild of his BB obviously the original block. He photograped and documented his rebuild as proof but the guy milled the stamp off.

The whole point is its "the original" right? so there it is yet guys tried to convince him his value dropped what a load of horsechit.

crawfish333

OK, thanks to everyone for the information about NCRS judging. I just thought the matching numbers thing was a no-go. I have not had my car judged yet. I and have not even attended an event yet, even though I have been an NCRS member for a year now.

I hope my schedule allows me to attend an even this year that includes judging, maybe my car if I get the nerve.

ed427vette

Resale value. If you don't care about how much money you sell it for then you don't have to worry about restamping it.

ed427vette

I believe in the post you are referring to about the documented engine rebuild, the member was GOING to have the numbers shaved off but decided to not have it done. The builder was telling him he needed to deck the block. He was advised to go elsewhere before he was about to lose his pad stamp

chstitans42

I had an engine rebuilt for my 1956 Cadillac, and when the block was decked, all he did was stop the machine right before it got to the numbers. On a Caddy it is the VIN that would disappear. Easily done, just takes a few more minutes of time.

ed427vette

Or it could be faith in your own ability to reasonably detect them yourself. There is a way to have them verified without any doubt as to its authenticity by using CCAS. I believe in there process and if I see they verified a block that's good enough for me.

Also, the whole car tells the story, not just the engine block. I know what I need to and want to see when looking at an unrestored car or even a restored car.

If the stamp itself is done perfectly, its still can't fool the CCAS process because they identify the broach marks from a specific time frame which can not be replicated exactly. It would be the equivalent of replicating the striations on a firearm round from a specifc barrel. They can make the pads look original, but the pattern will not match under close examination.

BBCorv70

I think I read an article somewhere which stated this service is offered only to the seller. Could be out of concern for being sued if a negative judgement results in a sale being lost, may not hold up in court. If this is indeed true, it's entirely up to the buyers to insist on this certification before buying, otherwise the fraud will continue.

A link to a prior thread discussing this service.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-and-ccas.html

ed427vette

I think you are correct. But if it was a L71 I would ask him to look at it anyway. All you can do is ask. if he does look at for a fee then great. If he didnt like the pad, I would pass on the car but not tell the seller why. If it was good to go I would pay the full price to Al for the certificate.

Otherwise you roll the dice.