gouging
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 103
From: Brisbane Queensland
You are absolutely right Ron. I somewhat alleviate this problem by searching out my parts, as often as possible, that offer free shipping to anywhere in the continental US. Then, since I live close to the Can/US border I have the parts shipped to my PO box in Washington. After that, I just head across and pick my stuff up. I claim everything religiously and without fail. Sometimes they charge me for taxes and sometimes not, but no brokerage fees.
we pay at least twice what everyone else does, for example, I was looking
for 5 speed shift indicator plate for my '69 vert, putting in a TKO 600.
The part price was $19+change, shipping charges where $38-$40+. Now
on top of that we pay a 20-25% (as does Canada) due to the exchange
rate. None of the suppliers would post it in a padded postal bag, they
all wanted to ship it in a box - bloody ridiculous!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 912
Likes: 402
From: Dutchess county New York
shipping:
Companies have to pay staff to pick, check, package, and process your order. A $0.49 stamp is not trackable so that option is out. They are assuming responsibility for the part getting to your door which costs them money.
As far as big box, small part. Those boxes cost pennies and are shipped by weight. It would cost more to have smaller boxes made.
I am not making excuses as prices are definitely high but as someone with his own business, I send all my small stuff via USPS and even their flat rate small box is now $8 at my cost.
The last company I worked for sold rifles and when I first arrived they were grossing about $3.5M annually. They spent about $.5M in shipping costs each year. It is no joke.
As for cost to manufacture, I am guessing many here have never been in manufacturing.
This is a prime example. No disrespect to your father but he is speaking from what he knows which is a very small part of the picture.
If you have your machine all set up, dies in place, and are making a run of 5000 of them, then yes they probably do cost pennies.
How many of those 3x2 covers do you think the company will sell? Let's go WAY out on a limb and say 20/year which I believe would be more like 5 given the rarity of actual 3x2 cars.
The expense in machining comes from the time it takes to break down the last job and tool up for the next. It can vary from 20 min to hours, depending on the job. This is time where the machinist ($20-$30/hr minimum since everyone here insists on made in USA) and his machine (small & manual: $8k, large & automated $500k+) are producing nothing of value. During this time the company pays salary for the employee (and support staff), utilities, insurance (employee health, property, liability, property costs, depreciation on the equipment, tooling wear. This is a very small part of the overall expense and the list does indeed go on.
Now lets say it takes an hour to tool up for making that part. The company orders 20 because really, are they going to sell that many anytime soon? The machine spits out 20 in about 30 minutes and now the machine needs to be broken down for the next job which for the sake of simplicity lets say it takes an hour as well.
That means in 2.5 hours, 20 parts were produced. Want to guess what the overall cost per part would be at that point? I would bet $10-$15.
If you have ever done prototyping: making a one-off part it is very easy for a single part to cost in the thousands of dollars. The expense of the material and actual machine time is a very small percentage of the end cost.
Part costs will continue to spiral upwards. Remember how not too long ago everyone was up in arms about bumping minimum wage to $15/hr? Well now that kid who does nothing more than stocking steel rods onto a shelf to stage for that machine shop just DOUBLED his expense to the company. Just one example of many of how the costs to do business in the USA is spiraling out of control and it is a very real problem. This is why many companies outsource their manufacturing to other countries...
Anyway, I am not disagreeing with you all that parts are indeed expensive. I am just offering a little 'devils advocate' view from the point of a former director of operations of multiple manufacturing businesses. Things are not always so black and white as 'look at that, there cant me more than $.50 of material. Why am I paying $20?"
Companies have to pay staff to pick, check, package, and process your order. A $0.49 stamp is not trackable so that option is out. They are assuming responsibility for the part getting to your door which costs them money.
As far as big box, small part. Those boxes cost pennies and are shipped by weight. It would cost more to have smaller boxes made.
I am not making excuses as prices are definitely high but as someone with his own business, I send all my small stuff via USPS and even their flat rate small box is now $8 at my cost.
The last company I worked for sold rifles and when I first arrived they were grossing about $3.5M annually. They spent about $.5M in shipping costs each year. It is no joke.
As for cost to manufacture, I am guessing many here have never been in manufacturing.
This is a prime example. No disrespect to your father but he is speaking from what he knows which is a very small part of the picture.
If you have your machine all set up, dies in place, and are making a run of 5000 of them, then yes they probably do cost pennies.
How many of those 3x2 covers do you think the company will sell? Let's go WAY out on a limb and say 20/year which I believe would be more like 5 given the rarity of actual 3x2 cars.
The expense in machining comes from the time it takes to break down the last job and tool up for the next. It can vary from 20 min to hours, depending on the job. This is time where the machinist ($20-$30/hr minimum since everyone here insists on made in USA) and his machine (small & manual: $8k, large & automated $500k+) are producing nothing of value. During this time the company pays salary for the employee (and support staff), utilities, insurance (employee health, property, liability, property costs, depreciation on the equipment, tooling wear. This is a very small part of the overall expense and the list does indeed go on.
Now lets say it takes an hour to tool up for making that part. The company orders 20 because really, are they going to sell that many anytime soon? The machine spits out 20 in about 30 minutes and now the machine needs to be broken down for the next job which for the sake of simplicity lets say it takes an hour as well.
That means in 2.5 hours, 20 parts were produced. Want to guess what the overall cost per part would be at that point? I would bet $10-$15.
If you have ever done prototyping: making a one-off part it is very easy for a single part to cost in the thousands of dollars. The expense of the material and actual machine time is a very small percentage of the end cost.
Part costs will continue to spiral upwards. Remember how not too long ago everyone was up in arms about bumping minimum wage to $15/hr? Well now that kid who does nothing more than stocking steel rods onto a shelf to stage for that machine shop just DOUBLED his expense to the company. Just one example of many of how the costs to do business in the USA is spiraling out of control and it is a very real problem. This is why many companies outsource their manufacturing to other countries...
Anyway, I am not disagreeing with you all that parts are indeed expensive. I am just offering a little 'devils advocate' view from the point of a former director of operations of multiple manufacturing businesses. Things are not always so black and white as 'look at that, there cant me more than $.50 of material. Why am I paying $20?"
Last edited by pigfarmer; Feb 28, 2018 at 12:27 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 364
From: Tolland CT
Oh I totally agree. On things which are more universal, or at least fit a wider range of vehicles there is no need to charge what they do other than their bottom line. That air cleaner lid price is ridiculous. It is stamped steel that was chromed and likely mass produced.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 241
From: Russell Ontario
St. Jude Donor '09
I have to agree most parts are made in the same place , but , on the box it's made in USA , the fact that the box is made in USA and the contents come from somewhere else . That is what I think , 
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
I used to ship small parts in a bubble envelope, and they would always get lost or chewed up in the fedex conveyor belt system. Switching to boxes solved that problem.
As long as the box is not too big, the shipping cost was the same.
As long as the box is not too big, the shipping cost was the same.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 414
Likes: 407
From: Meadville Pennsylvania
As I was growing up the general premise of consumer sales was always pricing according to supply and demand. Unfortunately today's retail environment leans towards pricing to what the market will bear. This seems true in auto parts as well as various fuels and household consumables. It's unfortunate but greed is rampant in today's world and there is nothing we can do about it.
Enjoy your hotrod and may your repairs be minimal.
Jerry
Enjoy your hotrod and may your repairs be minimal.
Jerry
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 364
From: Tolland CT
^ Yep. My experience as well.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
Someone, somewhere, long ago decided that it was 'cool' to have a corvette that was as close to how it came off the showroom as possible. This is great, and from it the NCRS was born (I am paraphrasing but Alan I am sure knows the entire history of the organization).
Once the NCRS became popular and other people decided that it would also be cool to have a corvette that was as close to original as possible the judging started. Now there was a numerical system to quantify just how close to original your car is. Again, this is awesome. It also plays directly into one of the larger motivators in the human psyche; extrinsic motivation.
Now it became a competition (some to others, some to themselves) to make their car as 'perfect' as possible.
In cars like ours that are ~50 years old, finding an original part that is unmolested is like finding a gold bar to some. The next best thing is a reproduction that is as close to original as possible.
The point: It is no surprise that any part which minimizes the point deductions from NCRS judging will demand a significantly higher price. Not because it is necessarily better, or not because it will cost more to manufacture, but simply because people are WILLING to pay more for it so that they can get those coveted NCRS points. For some, that is worth any expense (and more power to them!).
For me: I use Moog too :-p
Once the NCRS became popular and other people decided that it would also be cool to have a corvette that was as close to original as possible the judging started. Now there was a numerical system to quantify just how close to original your car is. Again, this is awesome. It also plays directly into one of the larger motivators in the human psyche; extrinsic motivation.
Now it became a competition (some to others, some to themselves) to make their car as 'perfect' as possible.
In cars like ours that are ~50 years old, finding an original part that is unmolested is like finding a gold bar to some. The next best thing is a reproduction that is as close to original as possible.
The point: It is no surprise that any part which minimizes the point deductions from NCRS judging will demand a significantly higher price. Not because it is necessarily better, or not because it will cost more to manufacture, but simply because people are WILLING to pay more for it so that they can get those coveted NCRS points. For some, that is worth any expense (and more power to them!).
For me: I use Moog too :-p
Racer
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 469
Likes: 24
From: Kansas City KS
I totally understand the cost of reproduction parts and am glad they are being made. What I don't understand...shipping costs. I tried to order 2 tail light housings for my car tonight, and my first shipping quote to Kansas...$24. A flat rate box is what, $7, $8? These aren't big bulky parts. Every vendor I checked was $20 or more for it. Ironically shipping was cheaper for the item on Ebay.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 769
Likes: 36
From: Goose Creek SC
Speaking of shipping issues....now in this case I was not charged shipping but then again someone is ultimately paying for it. I ordered 5 little magnetic screw driver bits, 1/4" size from a major tool company. A couple days later I get a large padded envelope, open it and find only one (1) of the bits. Thinking I got shorted the other four I go log in to my account and see there are 3 tracking numbers on my order. Couple days later I receive a box (8"x10") and in addition a large piece of cardboard folded and taped up like a large padded envelope would be, in size. The box has one of the tips, the fabricated envelope has the other three. Three shipments to deliver 5 tiny pieces. No way that company didn't lose money on my order. Like I say they didn't charge shipping but this is getting offset somewhere because what I paid for the tips was in no way exorbitant.
Last edited by 68/BB; Mar 22, 2018 at 08:25 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,292
Likes: 1,578
From: Western NY
I totally understand the cost of reproduction parts and am glad they are being made. What I don't understand...shipping costs. I tried to order 2 tail light housings for my car tonight, and my first shipping quote to Kansas...$24. A flat rate box is what, $7, $8? These aren't big bulky parts. Every vendor I checked was $20 or more for it. Ironically shipping was cheaper for the item on Ebay.
A number of years ago, I needed a specific tool, for I job I was going to do. I looked in the Sears catalog, to see if they sold such a tool. They did, and I noted the price. I then called my local store to see if they had it in stock, and they did.
I go to the store to purchase the tool, and I see that the price was $2-3 more than the catalog price, so I question it. The sales clerk then points out that if I order the tool through the catalog, I have to pay shipping, while the "in-store price" already has that factored in.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 706
Likes: 294
From: New Jersey
As someone who ships, there are quite a few variables that are not taken into account.
Both USP and FedEx have gotten more aggressive with what is called Dimensional Weight. This is based on how big the box is, not just how much it weighs.
There are also Residential Surcharges on shipping.
There are Signature charges on shipping
and
There is the Remote Delivery area surcharge.
It cost me more to ship to a customer that lives on a farm in the southern part of the state, than it does to ship the same package to California
Both USP and FedEx have gotten more aggressive with what is called Dimensional Weight. This is based on how big the box is, not just how much it weighs.
There are also Residential Surcharges on shipping.
There are Signature charges on shipping
and
There is the Remote Delivery area surcharge.
It cost me more to ship to a customer that lives on a farm in the southern part of the state, than it does to ship the same package to California
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 53,648
Likes: 878
From: Southern Cal Ca
St. Jude Donor '22
vette only stuff has always been high priced.
the more specific the more vette taxed.
good to see more and more parts are becoming avail.
the "handling" tax is what it is.
not a vette specific thing.
lucky vettes are valued or a lot of us would be crap out of luck.
OPG for chebby parts is similar but not quite the high price of
vette.
i know about the catalog prices because i get the same mailings.
i do swallow hard looking at the numbers
the more specific the more vette taxed.
good to see more and more parts are becoming avail.
the "handling" tax is what it is.
not a vette specific thing.
lucky vettes are valued or a lot of us would be crap out of luck.
OPG for chebby parts is similar but not quite the high price of
vette.
i know about the catalog prices because i get the same mailings.
i do swallow hard looking at the numbers
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 648
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
As for the parts, I'm just thrilled they're available at any price. This is a real treat compared to when I had my 70 Torino and I couldn't get a motor mount or brake flex line for it let alone anything like interior or body parts.
Last edited by Priya; Mar 23, 2018 at 07:17 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 199
Likes: 36
From: Rochester New Hampshire
I would rather spend a little more for a part that will last verses a cheaper part made in China that fails within a year or shorter. I bought 2 window switches that came apart while installing. I had to pull them back out and repair and epoxy the bottom plate. I can hear the switch click evertime I use the switch. Never heard that from a 46 year old switch made in the USA. I replaced the old switches that still worked because they looked bad. The Chrome plating was worn.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 968
Likes: 122
From: Lighthouse Point FL
If you owned an old Porsche (or airplane), you wouldn’t complain about the price of Corvette parts....
You should thank your lucky stars that manufacturers and vendors support your car.
You should thank your lucky stars that manufacturers and vendors support your car.