New guy question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Likes: 31
From: Finger Lakes area NY
New guy question
Numbers matching... all important for originality and ultimate value.
can someone please describe the easiest way to verify a car is "matching numbers"?
Thanks!
can someone please describe the easiest way to verify a car is "matching numbers"?
Thanks!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 838
From: New York
2017 C3 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '20- '21
No easy way. It depends on what you are looking at and how far down the line do you want it to match. Engine tranny rear ? Carborator alternator starter? Glass radio? Etc etc. then there are the date codes. Something could have the correct GM code but wrong date code. I am exhausted just thinking about it!!
So so grab some books heavily research the forum and educate yourself on what to look for. And the most important part is post anything you are considering buying on the forum for review by many eyes and expertise.
Oh oh by the way did we talk about restamps?????😂😂😂
Dont get discouraged. Not the purpose of my response. Just do a lot of homework if originality is important to you. And if we are talking big $$$$ then hire an expert after you have gone thru everything to verify it. Ike
So so grab some books heavily research the forum and educate yourself on what to look for. And the most important part is post anything you are considering buying on the forum for review by many eyes and expertise.
Oh oh by the way did we talk about restamps?????😂😂😂
Dont get discouraged. Not the purpose of my response. Just do a lot of homework if originality is important to you. And if we are talking big $$$$ then hire an expert after you have gone thru everything to verify it. Ike
Last edited by general ike; Aug 19, 2018 at 05:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Likes: 31
From: Finger Lakes area NY
Thanks
good stuff....
i think I am most concerned about engine, trans, dif.
I am shopoing for a driver river and while not critical, the correct numbers do ad value.
I’ll post what I am looking at next week
thanks again!
i think I am most concerned about engine, trans, dif.
I am shopoing for a driver river and while not critical, the correct numbers do ad value.
I’ll post what I am looking at next week
thanks again!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 838
From: New York
2017 C3 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '20- '21
There are a couple of books and a couple of web pages. This is one that I like.
https://www.corvsport.com/c3-corvett...rk-generation/
Good info in one spot. Ike
https://www.corvsport.com/c3-corvett...rk-generation/
Good info in one spot. Ike
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Save your money. If you want a driver car, just buy a nice C3 in good condition (mechanically and physically), save some money, and forget about the "numbers" thing. Basically, it's nothing but a "can o' worms" that doesn't net you any return (pay the premium on the front side; get it back on the sale). There are lots of very nice C3's...many with modern upgrades...that will make the car more enjoyable and probably less expensive.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 766
Likes: 97
From: Lake Norman, NC
Suggestion:
Step 1:. Join NCRS
Step 2. Have it judged.
There are MANY items that are numbered and dated. Really too many to list here. The judges will know and walk you through it all.
NCRS membership is inexpensive and qualifies you for numerous discounts and publications, plus you'll gain access to a huge Corvette braintrust.
Hope this helps
Step 1:. Join NCRS
Step 2. Have it judged.
There are MANY items that are numbered and dated. Really too many to list here. The judges will know and walk you through it all.
NCRS membership is inexpensive and qualifies you for numerous discounts and publications, plus you'll gain access to a huge Corvette braintrust.
Hope this helps
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,493
Likes: 1,501
From: Little Rock AR
LOTS of components have "numbers" on them. You can learn to decode them and verify them but for a driver you might not spend much time on that. Unless it is a particularly special car the numbers are just numbers at this point. If you were to check anything, you would check the engine block codes first if only to help you make maintenance and modification decisions later.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 954
Likes: 442
From: Dutchess county New York
Save your money. If you want a driver car, just buy a nice C3 in good condition (mechanically and physically), save some money, and forget about the "numbers" thing. Basically, it's nothing but a "can o' worms" that doesn't net you any return (pay the premium on the front side; get it back on the sale). There are lots of very nice C3's...many with modern upgrades...that will make the car more enjoyable and probably less expensive.
I was looking at a real survivor C3 and glad I didn't buy it. I'd be too squirrely about changing anything and would have heart failure with every rock chip. Got a nice driver instead and have loved working on it.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,146
Likes: 2,038
From: Easton, PA
St. Jude Donor '10
If someone is selling you a car and claims it to be numbers matching then I would ask for documented proof. Typically you are seeking engine, and transmission, that match the VIN plate on the A-Pillar; and exterior and interior color that matches the plate on the drivers side door opening near the hinges. Unfortunately, all of that can be duplicated, restamped, and you can build a nearly perfect fake car now.
If you want a nice driver I would suggest you may replace the engine and transmission, maybe the differential, maybe add rack and pinion steering; maybe Vintage Air A/C; new seat belts; new seat covers; etc. The key, to me, is that you drive your car and enjoy it without worrying so much about "Value". The market is not great for most of our cars now, and there are a lot of them available for sale, so buy what you want to own and drive.
I put a 350HO GM Crate Engine; Tremec TKO 500 transmission; side pipes; and a newly built rear end in my 1977 and it ran well and was fun to drive. It was a driver, and I loved it. Whatever you do, have fun.
Good luck with your decision and best regards,
David Howard
AllVettes4Me
If you want a nice driver I would suggest you may replace the engine and transmission, maybe the differential, maybe add rack and pinion steering; maybe Vintage Air A/C; new seat belts; new seat covers; etc. The key, to me, is that you drive your car and enjoy it without worrying so much about "Value". The market is not great for most of our cars now, and there are a lot of them available for sale, so buy what you want to own and drive.
I put a 350HO GM Crate Engine; Tremec TKO 500 transmission; side pipes; and a newly built rear end in my 1977 and it ran well and was fun to drive. It was a driver, and I loved it. Whatever you do, have fun.
Good luck with your decision and best regards,
David Howard
AllVettes4Me
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,146
Likes: 2,038
From: Easton, PA
St. Jude Donor '10
You are fishing Mike, but I get your point.. You know as well as I do that all documents can be forged, many have been. My documented proof is referring to documentation in the form of an approved inspector that has verified the presence of correct VIN and VIN derivatives in the locations matching the VIN of the car and Title. A-Pillar; engine pad; transmission; and frame all have the VIN or VIN derivative on them. If a build sheet is available, that helps a bunch as well. My point is that provenance, or documentation, showing the legacy and history of the car is something buyers should insist upon seeing before believing the car is truly numbers matching; and then it is no guarantee; but it sure helps.
Taking the word of the seller is not sufficient.
Share if you disagree Mike.
David Howard
AllVettes4Me
Taking the word of the seller is not sufficient.
Share if you disagree Mike.
David Howard
AllVettes4Me
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,947
Likes: 4,506
From: Virginia
If your C3 budget is $15K or less, buy the nicest, rust-free car you can find, fix what you need to to be safe, drive it and enjoy it!
If your budget is more than $15K, follow the instructions above, and invest the balance.
A driver-grade C3 is not an investment, it is a toy. For $15K you can get the nicest vinyl bumper C3 in your area. It won't have been worth it to anyone to forge an engine stamp, and you won't be worried about paint chips or blowing up a smog motor. If you want a chrome bumper driver, great! I love seeing them being driven.
If your budget is more than $15K, follow the instructions above, and invest the balance.
A driver-grade C3 is not an investment, it is a toy. For $15K you can get the nicest vinyl bumper C3 in your area. It won't have been worth it to anyone to forge an engine stamp, and you won't be worried about paint chips or blowing up a smog motor. If you want a chrome bumper driver, great! I love seeing them being driven.
Last edited by Bikespace; Aug 21, 2018 at 09:30 AM.
