Tonio

That car needs a LOT of work and is missing a lot of parts. It went for $28k? Whoa!

PreviousOwner

The story line goes on. I received a call AND an email before I was even moving around today. The buyer was a "phony bidder" (his words) and now the car is back up for sale and "the price will be much lower".

Originally, the auction was to end at 5:00 p.m. CST on Sunday yet the correspondence I got saying it was sold was Saturday evening. It was a no reserve auction. So, there was no final bidder, the seller chose to end the auction early. As I recall, it was somewhere around $21,200 high bid, the last I saw. I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling, but, I'm a natural skeptic. I think some of it goes back to the fact that he couldn't send the pic of the stamp pad any way but via text. Thus, limiting my ability to blow it up without transferring to desktop, etc. I can't make out the head markings at all. You guys have better eyesight than I do!

Chapter2 (and others), I'd be thrilled to see a list of what it's missing. I went through this on another '70 LT-1 and the list and prices of missing parts was staggering. Think I threw away my notes on that one .

Thanks again for all the help! It's been an interesting venture.

Tonio

Missing:

Hood stripes....doesnt matter, it needs a repaint anyway.
Chin spoiler
Radio
Correct exhaust manifolds
SMOG pump and accessories
Proper distributor
Proper carburetor and intake manifold (guessing the originals are gone)
Ignition shielding
Interior needs a resto
I'm also guessing that the suspension will need a refresh
Brakes?
Does everything else work? I'll guess no.

It's a long and expensive list to "make it right", but to the right person it could be a fun journey.

I'd want to see the chassis-cam photos too to assess the needs under the car.

And make sure that it's a legit LT-1, lots of fakes out there.

joewill

i think the main question for the OP is what do you require? you are not going to get a legit 100 point LT1 1970 for 20K.
20K should buy you a medium condition non original 1970 coupe with many needs and several excuses for any claim of all original..
throw out all the LT1 hype.
if the car is at asking 30K to 60K then all these comments are valid. but at 20K? nope... its a 70 coupe for 20K.. a fair price..
unless it has rust, then run.

toylman

Have no regrets about missing out. The stamp may be good and the POP that we did Not see would verify if it were a LT-1 since (line by line) shows H Holley, vin, month of production, rear info/stamp, engine date/suffix stamp, bowtie, options, trans info/stamp.
But, as Chapter 2 list shows, it needs a lot of work and that list alone looks like 25K to me.

stingr69

To be sure - The seller "Jim" has sold a LOT of classic Corvettes online so he is not confused at all about what he is selling. He specializes in Corvettes and operates a business doing so.

PreviousOwner

Thanks again, all. I had a long discussion with "Jim" Monday afternoon. As per stingr69, he (Jim) has bought/sold some 500 Corvettes in his life. I asked about rust and potential chassis issues and got back that it had the typical surface rust but no holes, or rust through. I asked if pictures were available and the question was never answered. More points during our talk:
1) I asked about the correct distributor (again) and, now, it's not on the car but he thinks he has one laying around that he'd include.
2) I believe he said it came from Kansas & was bought from a Widow after sitting 30+? years. I asked if he did a compression check on the engine and the answer was "No".
3) I asked about the polished intake manifold and he says it is "correct" but he has no idea how or when it got polished.
4) I asked about the block casting # and he says it is an 010 (no pics).
5) I had asked way back for a pic of the 3 holes where the TI would go. Never rec'd.
6) He admitted he had not even looked to see if it had the correct carb. I'm guessing not.
7) I asked about the lack of broach marks on the stamp pad and he blamed that on the camera (which was apparently a phone)
The last buyer backed out at $28k, and "Jim" told me he felt like that was too much anyway (who ever has said that when selling a car?). A couple of "Corvette guys" looked at it Saturday and were going to bid as it ended Sunday, but, he ended the auction for the $28k guy Saturday evening (see note on auction about having to ask your wife, etc., etc.) He seems to be a nice enough guy and obviously knows these cars, but, can be a little evasive when asked for pictures. The POP looks correct (unless I'm missing something). My concern is that the car was "built" to match the POP. That, and, rust.
To answer an earlier post, I was only looking for something safe to drive and structurally sound. No trailer queen, no NCRS judging. Would probably add back correct pieces as time went by, possibly over 5 years, or so. But, even that may be cost prohibitive. I'd basically talked myself off the car by Monday evening. But thanks again for the add'l info and thoughtful posts. This is a great forum to run potential purchases by the members on!
Best,
PO

derekderek

Interesting. Look at the dates of the 5 pics. 2 are 0210. The other 3 are 1219. My guess is the special engines were built in batches.

PreviousOwner

Sry, Dynra. Meant to answer this in my last post. I DID ask him this exact question Monday and his answer was there was only one small corner left on the old tank & nothing legible at all.

firstgenaddict

Here is another CTU 1229 Build date for reference... This pad is certified by Al Grenning - I looked at the car at PROTEAM a couple of months ago.

I made an offer of 35k and Brian turned it down, however this car could be bought for 38-40 and is COMPLETE to the smog.
In order for it to be a dependable cruiser/weekend play toy it needs 3-5k in suspension, heater core and brakes to be a great driver. If I had 5k more in my budget I would have probably owned this car...
It needs a thorough cleaning and detailing without doing any "restoration" and keeping things in check with the appearance of the car. (probably 100 hours worth of work there) If it were cleaned, the paint claybarred and then protected and preserved the car would be a a VERY PRESENTABLE unmolested original paint car-
IMHO it should be flight judged prior to doing any work on it.
IT would be a much better deal than 25-28 for the above Bridgehampton over Bright Blue car.
When you start buying original components and fixing other people's messes and it will make 12 k extra for a nice original complete car seem CHEAP. TRUST THOSE WHO HAVE DONE THIS IN THE PAST...

7T1vette

Good heavens!!! Where are those "must have" broach marks??!!

firstgenaddict

I don't know, however the engine has never been out of the car, 50k miles 1 owner. It still has the original intake gaskets, freeze plugs, and steel shim head gaskets... so that probably makes it a little easier to be sure that the deck is unaltered.

7T1vette

I'm sure that your car and engine are original. My statement was sarcastic in nature, and directed at those who [mistakenly] believe that ALL legitimate engine stamp pads MUST have broach [chatter] marks. It is an erroneous position which does not have merit in the real manufacturing world--but a view which has been venerated within the NCRS world of "it's original if we say so". Your pad is proof that this faulty "theory" is just bunk....

dklumpp

I bought this car. Legit LT1. broach marks present. Block dated A 27 0. Single fuel line present, rear has the large end caps and looks to have never been removed. Still has the 3 holes where the ti box was. Data plate looks original along with the gauges. Original LT1 Hood with no evidence of holes being filled in. Body seems good no evidence of any major repairs. Plate on the car says 1970 LT1 and has not been registered since 02. Definitely some stuff missing but for what I paid for it it's well worth it. Also, car has paperwork all the way back to 76. I'm happy with it and will post some pictures soon

20mercury

Here a LT-1 list mostly from this forum.5-21-2018 Here is a great list I saved from a posting here:

There are a few things that only a LT-1 would have , some are pretty easy to change out and some are not very easy at all.in no piticular order.

1st. No 1970 or 1971 LT-1 had A/C

2nd. Emission sticker on fire wall behind master cylinder should have letters AX on upper left corner for a 71.

3rd. All LT-1's are 4 speeds. (M20 was std , M21/M22 were optional)

4th. Tach has 6,500 RPM red line on 1970 & 1971 and on 72's w/o AC

5th. All 71 LT-1's came with A.I.R. system. If removed should still have manifolds with holes for the tubes, Car may have headers and if so ask to see old manifolds.

6th. LT-1's had copper radiator W/O a overflow canisiter on the passanger side fenderwell. There should also be no holes whers one had been mounted.


7th. All 70 / 71 LT-1's had Tranisitor Ign. system. That may have been removed. But if it is removed look for the 3 holes on the front face of the driver side inner fender well where the Amplifer box was mounter.

Take a flashlight and look in front of the front wheel or open hood and look at it from the front side. 2 holes on bottom and 1 on top. No TI on the 72 LT-1


8th. Should have a Winters snowflake intake manifold with casting # 3959594
for 1971 and 1972, per NCRS, 1970 should be #3972110. Both manifolds are aluminum (my addition).


9th. LT-1's had a Holley carb. so there is only 1 fuel line , no return line like a quadra-jet carb. Look along frame rail on passanger side for the single line. Also the fuel tank is different. There should be no nipple on the passanger side, side wall for a return line.

If you lay on your back under the rear wheel you can reach your hand up and feel for an indention on the passanger side. If there is a nipple that is capped off , then beware.

Also the single fuel line on a LT-1 was not the same line that was used to feed fuel on the 2 line set up. So if someone removed the return line the look of the 3/8 line is still different. Not a big difference but if you can look at a car with a 2 line set up then you can see what you do not want to find.

10th. LT-1's had solid lifters , but if the car does not then that is not to big a red flag. Many people do not like them and may have replaced with HYD. lifters during a rebuild.


11th. The hardest to fake and most expensive would be the 4 bolt main block. No # on the outside of the block can verify this.

Only way to verify is to remove the pan or have a lighted optical viewer and remove the drain plug.


12th. LT-1's use 2.5" exhaust pipes like the big block cars. But the manifolds were still 2" set up. So the pipes flair from 2 to 2.5" about 6 inches from the manifold. The exhaust hangar at the trans is also different. Look on line at the Corvette Central site and you can see both 2" and 2.5" hangars.

13th. As I recall the highest rear end gear was 3:36 if trans was a M20

And id Trans was a M21 or M22 the 3:55 was highest gear

M20 3:36 Economy

3:55 Standard

3:70 Performance


M21 / M22

3:55 Economy

3:70 Standard

4:11 Performance

14th. The 70 /72 LT-1 Aluminum valve covers should have a rubber oil cap not a twist in. These covers are very hard to find. All the catalouges sell the twist in cap style.

15th. LT-1's have the same heavy duty half shaft retainers as big block cars. look at the rear end side yokes, there should be caps with bolts. Base cars used U bolts with nuts.

16th. The rocker arms have a letter O stamped in them.

17th. The balancer on the crankshaft is an 8" unit not a 6" 18th. Original LT-1 hood would not have the holes for 454 number emblems since LT-1 decal and stencil was used.

That is all I know of. and you could not fake all of this and sell a car for a mid 20's price and be worth the effort / expense.

So until someone finds the lost records from St Louis anyone buying a no base model car will be going out on a limb at little unless you are buying from the original owner.

Sounds like a very nice Corvette, if you decide to pass, please post a picture! Even if a "fake" LT-1, it might be a great deal if priced accordingly. IMHO, the key is to pay fair market price for what it actually is! 19th Great check list for a LT1. You could add No p/s in 1970 with a CTU engine. CTU had the 6 qt. oil pan. Also, plastic fan shrouds on LT1s. 6-21-18
20th. Lots of places to find this (the key is of course: is it an original stamp?)
1970 CTK, CTR, CTU CTV(ZR1)
1971 CGY(ZR1), CGZ
1972 CKY CKZ(ZR1) CRS CRT

Agree that glass fuel filter likely came off an outboard motor, never intended for a LT-1. Nice Corvette!!! Congratulations dklumpp!!!

pgtr

Indeed. I wonder if sometimes we let things like broach marks function as a barrier to enjoying vintage Corvettes. If the plan for enjoying a car is to have it 'judged' to serve as a validation of a claim of 'originality' - then the broach marks are probably important. But if the plan is to enjoy a safe clean vintage driver... do they matter...?

PreviousOwner

Congrats! Look forward to seeing more pics.