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77 L82 leaking rain water into car

 
Old 01-07-2019, 03:44 PM
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KNOT-HEAD
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Default 77 L82 leaking rain water into car

I have a 77 L82. After 2.5 years of being in and out of several shops, I have recently been able to put it on the road continually for 2500 miles. I'm is South Central Louisiana and it has been raining almost daily for the past month. I have been parking the car in the lot at work during the day and in all that rain. The rain water is leaking into the car and making a puddle on both the drivers and passengers side floor. I tried to seal the joints in the windshield wiper compartment with a spray sealer but that did not stop the water. I can't see far enough down the area at both ends of the wiper channel, but the top is open. It seems like the water is coming in from those openings. If I seal those two openings, the water will be trapped in the wiper channel. How do I stop the water from coming down the ends of the wiper channel and into the car?

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Old 01-07-2019, 05:32 PM
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Usually, it's the T-Tops that leak, not the base of the windshield or top of the firewall. Your best bet, IMHO, is that on a dry day, you're gonna have to get underneath the dash, lay there with a flashlight and have somebody direct a hose at that area, from outside, to see exactly where it's leaking from. Agreed that it's a tough area to get to, but at least you'll know exactly where it's coming from.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:30 PM
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It CAN leak a the top of the firewall where the plenum is riveted to the top of the birdcage and the sealer GM used is failing and cracking away.

Until you can identify the EXACT spot(s) it is leaking from... telling you how to fix those areas I know that can fail is a waste of my time. SO...if you can confirm where it is leaking at...and this also may include removing your kick plates....would be helpful.

Pillar post and door w/strips at the hinge area can cause for water to flood in if they are not correct.

I use tape to seal off areas and check it and when I remove the tape and it leaks ..it can help me better isolate the area where it is coming in at if I can not visibly see it drip.

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Old 01-08-2019, 11:18 AM
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Thanks, I never thought of the T-Tops leaking down the inside of the car and accumulate a puddle on both floors. I would have thought I would have seen water on the side rail of the window or something. It's going to be hard to get my fat "KNOT-HEAD" in position to see under the dash but somehow I will make it happen.

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Old 01-08-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
It CAN leak a the top of the firewall where the plenum is riveted to the top of the birdcage and the sealer GM used is failing and cracking away.

Until you can identify the EXACT spot(s) it is leaking from... telling you how to fix those areas I know that can fail is a waste of my time. SO...if you can confirm where it is leaking at...and this also may include removing your kick plates....would be helpful.

Pillar post and door w/strips at the hinge area can cause for water to flood in if they are not correct.

I use tape to seal off areas and check it and when I remove the tape and it leaks ..it can help me better isolate the area where it is coming in at if I can not visibly see it drip.

DUB
Thanks, I will do my best to see exactly where the water is coming from. I don't see water on anything inside the bird cage but the on both floor boards.

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Old 01-08-2019, 07:21 PM
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You are correct about IF a T-top leaks that IF it does at the top outer corner area...the water would go under your side pillar interior trim and drip at the bottom...then flow down the outer surface of the hinge post and get behind the kick plate and fill up the floor board.

IF the T-top leaks across the top at the windshield...it will collect under the center top windshield frame trim and begin to drip when enough water gets in there.

In the photo below the red arrow is circling the area where the factory sealant can age and crack and cause for water to get under the gusset that is used to hold the end of your top hood surround to the car. This gusset is held in with pop rivets and also bonded...and when flexing of this area occurs....the sealant breaks away its bond and water can enter the birdcage through the rivets and also cause rust to develop.



The red square is outlining the area where the cowl panel can break loose the sealant and allow water to flow right into the car. The yellow arrows are pointing to that sealant. The yellow circles show where the three pop rivets go that hold the gusset to the bird cage.



The last photo is of the area repaired by 'Willforce71'. And the gusset installed. Check out his thread for more information if desired and the discussions that go along with these photos.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-stripped.html



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Old 01-08-2019, 08:16 PM
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I have the exact same problem with mine... mysterious water on the floorboards when I took my carpet out last week. Haven't driven the car in a couple weeks so It's probably not from under. Fortunately I have the interior torn apart so with any luck, I'll be able to see the leak without too much fuss.

Good luck!
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:45 PM
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I had some water coming in on top of the hinge pillars. I had to seal a gap inside the metal channel in the front upper corner of the door jambs. I don’t know if you can see the area on the inside without pulling the dash out though. There are some photos in my thread linked below that will hopefully illustrate what I’m talking about better than I can explain it.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...iper-area.html
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:19 AM
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And if any one looks at the thread above. Look at POST #5. For what it may be worth. Saves me from repeating what I previously wrote which still applies an has not changed

I know the method shown in the thread above stops the water for the most part but what happens is that the water is now doing more hidden damage until one day it is a catastrophic problem. And I only wrote this because I have seen it.

And YES..I understand that what it REALLY takes to stop this is something that about 99.8% of people just do not want to do. Because I get customers who think that just because I work on these cars I have some magic wand that can make things go away with a simple flick and swish of a magic wand. Guess again.

I can pump some of my CRL product in the circled area in photo 1 of POST#6 to stop the water coming...but I can not guarantee that the problems of rust under the gusset you can see in photo 2 in POST #6 has not begun and will continue to grow.

And for those who wonder how does the three rivets get stressed and pulled on and allow the sealant to break seal and allow water in. It is simple. If people put the jack stand where GM tells them to put them slightly in front of the number 1 body mount area....THUS slightly in front of the firewall. Guess what happens when all the weight of your engine and front end NOW have a fulcrum point to bend at. which NOW is oddly right at the area of this gusset due to the front end is NOW pulling on the entire front clip and at the firewall area.

YES..I have had confrontations with forum members when discussion about jack stand placement, who state their car does not flex when they do this and the gap of the top hood surround to the door does not move. But if they keep doing it....STRESS will finally make its appearance and THEN they might see it...and by that time...the beginning of he end is in effect if they keep doing it.

Sorry to waver a bit off topic but it does apply.

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Old 01-09-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
You are correct about IF a T-top leaks that IF it does at the top outer corner area...the water would go under your side pillar interior trim and drip at the bottom...then flow down the outer surface of the hinge post and get behind the kick plate and fill up the floor board.

IF the T-top leaks across the top at the windshield...it will collect under the center top windshield frame trim and begin to drip when enough water gets in there.

In the photo below the red arrow is circling the area where the factory sealant can age and crack and cause for water to get under the gusset that is used to hold the end of your top hood surround to the car. This gusset is held in with pop rivets and also bonded...and when flexing of this area occurs....the sealant breaks away its bond and water can enter the birdcage through the rivets and also cause rust to develop.



The red square is outlining the area where the cowl panel can break loose the sealant and allow water to flow right into the car. The yellow arrows are pointing to that sealant. The yellow circles show where the three pop rivets go that hold the gusset to the bird cage.



The last photo is of the area repaired by 'Willforce71'. And the gusset installed. Check out his thread for more information if desired and the discussions that go along with these photos.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-stripped.html



DUB
Thanks,
The pictures both here and on your thread helped a great deal. While driving in the rain, I can (sometimes) feel water dripping on to the top of my left foot. I can feel the water hit my foot especially when I begin to make a turn. That is why I had been thinking the water was coming from the windshield wiper cavity. I sprayed clear sealant over the complete wiper channel and it didn't help stop any of the water leak. I'll just have to remove the kick plates, pull back the carpet from under the peddles, stick my "water melon size head" under the dash while my wife sprays water on the roof, windshield and wiper channel. I hope I will not have to remove the front cap of the car as you did. I am not qualified or equipped to go to that extreme. I had a mechanic shop install a complete Vintage A/C kit in the car shortly after I purchased it. They had the car for 6 months and never had the A/C fully operational. I picked up the car from them and had another shop complete the work. The first shop removed parts and did not plug the openings, such as the fresh air intake. I put a plate over that opening and sealed it. I hope they didn't leave out more parts that may be causing the water problems. I just dumped a lot of money into the, interior, engine and drive train. I guess the next bucket of money will be on the body.

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Last edited by KNOT-HEAD; 01-09-2019 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Add text
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Auggievf View Post
I have the exact same problem with mine... mysterious water on the floorboards when I took my carpet out last week. Haven't driven the car in a couple weeks so It's probably not from under. Fortunately I have the interior torn apart so with any luck, I'll be able to see the leak without too much fuss.

Good luck!
Thanks,
Please read my reply to "DUB". Is the water leaking onto your left foot as you are driving in the rain?

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rgwoehr View Post
I had some water coming in on top of the hinge pillars. I had to seal a gap inside the metal channel in the front upper corner of the door jambs. I don’t know if you can see the area on the inside without pulling the dash out though. There are some photos in my thread linked below that will hopefully illustrate what I’m talking about better than I can explain it.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...iper-area.html
Thanks,
The pictures on your thread are very helpful. Please read the reply I sent to DUB.

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
And if any one looks at the thread above. Look at POST #5. For what it may be worth. Saves me from repeating what I previously wrote which still applies an has not changed

I know the method shown in the thread above stops the water for the most part but what happens is that the water is now doing more hidden damage until one day it is a catastrophic problem. And I only wrote this because I have seen it.

DUB
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the fix in that thread did keep water out for a while, but it seems to be leaking again. I tend to put the jack stands just in front of the firewall, and the front end sags quite a bit so I'm not sure if the seam I sealed in that thread tore open again or if it's something new. I haven't done any investigating because the car is parked inside now and I don't care as much. But I see what you're saying now, the only way to truly fix this and keep further damage from happening is to do major surgery on the car. I'm not sure that I'll ever go that far.


Originally Posted by KNOT-HEAD View Post
Thanks,
The pictures on your thread are very helpful. Please read the reply I sent to DUB.

KNOT-HEAD
You're welcome. And I would recommend starting low and moving your way up towards the roof when checking for leaks. I did the opposite, and it made it difficult to find exactly where it was coming from because the water keeps running down.

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
And if any one looks at the thread above. Look at POST #5. For what it may be worth. Saves me from repeating what I previously wrote which still applies an has not changed

I know the method shown in the thread above stops the water for the most part but what happens is that the water is now doing more hidden damage until one day it is a catastrophic problem. And I only wrote this because I have seen it.

And YES..I understand that what it REALLY takes to stop this is something that about 99.8% of people just do not want to do. Because I get customers who think that just because I work on these cars I have some magic wand that can make things go away with a simple flick and swish of a magic wand. Guess again.

I can pump some of my CRL product in the circled area in photo 1 of POST#6 to stop the water coming...but I can not guarantee that the problems of rust under the gusset you can see in photo 2 in POST #6 has not begun and will continue to grow.

And for those who wonder how does the three rivets get stressed and pulled on and allow the sealant to break seal and allow water in. It is simple. If people put the jack stand where GM tells them to put them slightly in front of the number 1 body mount area....THUS slightly in front of the firewall. Guess what happens when all the weight of your engine and front end NOW have a fulcrum point to bend at. which NOW is oddly right at the area of this gusset due to the front end is NOW pulling on the entire front clip and at the firewall area.

YES..I have had confrontations with forum members when discussion about jack stand placement, who state their car does not flex when they do this and the gap of the top hood surround to the door does not move. But if they keep doing it....STRESS will finally make its appearance and THEN they might see it...and by that time...the beginning of he end is in effect if they keep doing it.

Sorry to waver a bit off topic but it does apply.

DUB
Thanks,
This may be the root cause of my water problems. The first mechanic (out of currently five) had the car on four stands. I commented to him he had them in the wrong spot on the front of the car. He had the front two jacks near the door hinge area of the frame. This allowed the weight of the engine to make about a one inch gap at the area the gusset is located. I had him re-situate the stands, but I guess by then the damage had been done. Now that I think about it, I don't remember any issues with water leaking until after I had him work on the car!!!!! So what do you think? Is this something a old fat rooky such as myself tackle or should I try to find someone that can pull the front cap and make a thorough inspection before making repairs? If so, does anyone recommend someone in the Baton Rouge area that may be able to make "GOOD QUALITY" repairs. I have been very unsuccessful in finding qualified people to work on this car.

KNOT-HEAD

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Old 01-09-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KNOT-HEAD View Post
Thanks,
Please read my reply to "DUB". Is the water leaking onto your left foot as you are driving in the rain?

KNOT-HEAD

Did. Thanks! I haven't felt/seen any but my car has been stationary since the rains started because I was tearing apart my interior.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:42 PM
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More pictures!

KNOT-HEAD



WIPER CHANNEL HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH CLEAR SEALANT AND DID NOT HELP STOP LEAK!


WIPER CHANNEL HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH CLEAR SEALANT AND DID NOT HELP STOP LEAK!















NEW CARPET HAS 2500 MILES ON IT. THERE WAS ABOUT 1/4" STANDING WATER OVER THE CARPET AFTER SITTING IN THE PARKING LOT DURING AN EIGHT HOUR RAIN STORM.








NEW CARPET HAS 2500 MILES ON IT. THERE WAS ABOUT 1/16" STANDING WATER OVER THE CARPET AFTER SITTING IN THE PARKING LOT DURING AN EIGHT HOUR RAIN STORM.


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Old 01-09-2019, 07:23 PM
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For starters..... the wiper trough is like a gutter and there is no way for water to get into the car unless it is cracked. So spraying stuff on the bottom is pointless.

Photo 2 in POST 6 ...where the red square outlines the area is where you can be getting dripping water. So all of that bubble gummed stuff they applied may need to be taken out and inspected so fresh stuff applied.

In the photo below I DO NOT like what I see and teh are circled in red is showing how they filled in this area when it needs to be sure it can allow water to flow out of it like how your right side looks. The water can be damming up.




In the photo below the red circle is obviously showing how water is getting down to that area in the last photo. And IT CAN fill up and leak IF the area that needs to be open to allow water to flow is closed off.



The photo below is the right side and is how the left side SHOULD look.. The red circle is where the water is designed to drain out into the jamb




Pumping in sealant where I have shown you in POST#6 is all you can do unless you choose to take the front clip off. I gave the part numbers to the CR Laurence sealants I use that are in the link that has been posted on this thread.

Until a spot has been identified of where the water is leaking...not much more I can do.

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Old 01-14-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB View Post
For starters..... the wiper trough is like a gutter and there is no way for water to get into the car unless it is cracked. So spraying stuff on the bottom is pointless.

Photo 2 in POST 6 ...where the red square outlines the area is where you can be getting dripping water. So all of that bubble gummed stuff they applied may need to be taken out and inspected so fresh stuff applied.

In the photo below I DO NOT like what I see and teh are circled in red is showing how they filled in this area when it needs to be sure it can allow water to flow out of it like how your right side looks. The water can be damming up.




In the photo below the red circle is obviously showing how water is getting down to that area in the last photo. And IT CAN fill up and leak IF the area that needs to be open to allow water to flow is closed off.



The photo below is the right side and is how the left side SHOULD look.. The red circle is where the water is designed to drain out into the jamb




Pumping in sealant where I have shown you in POST#6 is all you can do unless you choose to take the front clip off. I gave the part numbers to the CR Laurence sealants I use that are in the link that has been posted on this thread.

Until a spot has been identified of where the water is leaking...not much more I can do.

DUB
Thanks DUB,
So let me try to get this right. It should NOT cause a problem if I dig out the ugly stuff on the drivers side of the wiper channel. I didn't want to mess with that, being afraid I may make the problem worse. Make sure I have the replacement sealant on hand before I remove the existing junk. Inspect what this junk has been covering up. Make repairs, if necessary then fill up the channel so the water will run out and not puddle! Correct?
I was driving in hard rain over the weekend and tried to pay close attention as to when the water was leaking. While driving, there was no leak. When turned right there was a few drops of water that fell onto the top of my left foot. I did not have anyone in the passenger seat to witness any leaks on that side. I will order some of the sealant then pray for the best.

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Old 01-14-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KNOT-HEAD View Post
Thanks DUB,
So let me try to get this right. It should NOT cause a problem if I dig out the ugly stuff on the drivers side of the wiper channel. I didn't want to mess with that, being afraid I may make the problem worse. Make sure I have the replacement sealant on hand before I remove the existing junk. Inspect what this junk has been covering up. Make repairs, if necessary then fill up the channel so the water will run out and not puddle! Correct?
I was driving in hard rain over the weekend and tried to pay close attention as to when the water was leaking. While driving, there was no leak. When turned right there was a few drops of water that fell onto the top of my left foot. I did not have anyone in the passenger seat to witness any leaks on that side. I will order some of the sealant then pray for the best.

KNOT-HEAD
I like using CR Laurence CRL 7708 and CRL 1716 sealers myself. I like the CRL 1716 due to being a 'flow-grade' type sealer. I have custom made tubes that I can hold onto the caulk tube (7708) that allows me to get into tight areas and get the 7708 to flow in as best as possible..if needed.

I think I found the correct information from your thread. Please see in blue. Is this correct? Can you recommend a place to purchase it from?

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Old 01-14-2019, 05:41 PM
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Not sure if it is the best place but I got mine at DK Hardware

Not sure if links are allowed but here: https://www.dkhardware.com/black-win...duct-2698.html
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