Hey all as I continue to look for a nice original convertible I have run into some interesting things, so here is another. The owner insists that this is a correct pad stamping and states that the has a NCRS inspector appraisal report to verify it. To me the "HE" and especially the "E" looks really odd. It is a 68 so odd things were happening but what do you all think???





Sorry for the upside down. Thoughts???? Greatly appreciated!!! Ike

 

Love hearing other's opinions on engine pad stampings because I am not an expert by any means.

 

See what the NCRS "appraisal" says. Could be completely legit. VIN derivative and engine assembly date jive for a May built car.

 

I haven’t dived into the details yet. To look thru the report or to look to see if everything else is correct. I learned not to assume with these things a while ago but it does just look odd. It might be the photo or the angle

Does anyone have a pic of another “HE” to compare to?

Thanks Ike

 

The picture's not the best, but I'm having a hard time seeing any broach marks on the pad? That would be my first concern.

I've seen quite a few suffix codes stamped like that on Tonanwanda big block engines, but I don't recall ever seeing a Flint small block stamped like that. Sometimes a block is stamped wrong, and is corrected by grinding off the bad stamp, and restamping, but then there would be obvious signs of the grind out. GM used an assortment of fonts for stamping, but they were usually uniform in size, but that "E" is noticeably larger than the rest of the digits.

I'd like to get a better look at the VIN stamp too. It might just be distortion caused by the camera angle, but it looks like the VIN goes "down hill". The last four digits of the VIN look like they're lower and out of line, with the digits at the start of the VIN?

My opinion might be different if I saw the pad in person, but from the pictures, I'd have some concerns.

Inspectors make mistakes, and not all NCRS judges are as good as others. Not long ago I did an inspection of a 71, that had been inspected for the seller by a well known New England inspector, before he bought it. It had also been recently judged at an NCRS show, where one of the judges was a well known NJ inspector. I wore out a pencil, writing down all the things that were missed in the previous inspection, and missed in judging (the seller showed me the previous inspection report, and the judging sheets). I'm not talking about little things either, like a wrong screw, I'm talking about a replacement windshield, poor panel alignment, signs of previous repairs, a tear in a seat, pitted chrome and even incorrect emblems. These are simple things that no NCRS judge or inspector, should ever have missed.

The 68 Corvette did suffer from "teething pains", but these were issues related to things that were new to the 68 Corvette. GM had been stamping blocks for many years before the 68 Corvette went into production.

 

Yeah I am not sure how much validity I would put in the inspection report. Knowledge conflict of interest come into play loo often. He states that i has been judged I would love to see that however.

The owner takes the questions personnel ( of which many of them do) which trying to get to the bottom of this difficult. Plus its cross country for me so a quick look to clarify is not realistic. I was hoping maybe it was some oddness common with the HE stamp so i was looking for a comparison.
IKe

 

Ike, is it vin #420094?

 

71 green 454 I believe so. The owner blocked the number but if I magnify the pad I think that is what I see. Do you have some info on this particular car??! Greatly appreciate it. Thanks Ike

 

I thought I could make out the vin# and looked on the C3 Registry. If this is the one, the HE block is mentioned..."Matching Numbers, Including Date Coded 'HE' Block". The E sure looks strange.

 

This always sets off alarms with me. If a car is as a seller claims, they should have no problem with a serious buyer, asking valid questions, and providing complete and honest answers.

There was a black/black 66 convertible for sale about 5 minutes from me. I was contacted by 3 different people about doing an inspection of the car, and every time the seller put a road block up. For "safety" reasons, he claimed he didn't want anyone coming to his house, but he also refused to bring it to my shop. I wasn't a threat, we'd met a couple times, and we had mutual friends. I found out later it had a repro trim tag on it, and wasn't a real black/black car.

A lot of 66 427's seem to be stamped like that, with the second letter appearing to have been stamped separate from the gang holder, but I don't remember ever seeing a small block stamped that way. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I wouldn't be comfortable without a lot more research.

 

Dave Thanks for the info but then again the owner can basically put in anything they want into the registry wo any confirmation of any kind.

Here are some photos from the net of HE and they look normal.





I wonder if it was a light strike and someone thought it was a good idea to enhance it????

Gbvette62 I encounter this resistance often. I don't always think they are hiding something but almost like the are insulted you are questioning their car and I also think they are afraid to find out something bad about the car that they failed to discover.. I once had a genius angrily tell me that they bought the car without investigating a supposedly correct car and if I want it I should do the same after I asked to look at the trim tag !!!!! I asked him if he was an idiot and walked away.

Ike

 

The "E" on that pad is much larger than the other stamps. Unless there was additional legitimate documentation on that car, I'm not buying it. GM wouldn't purchase different sizes of stamps for that SB pad. Different fonts? Maybe. Different sizes for a specific stamping? Never. I believe the "HE" was altered or possibly some dolt thought it should show the letters better and put some of his own stamps over it.

If someone could show me very similar photos of SB pads on cars built just before or just after this one, I'd change my mind. Otherwise, no....

 

7T1vette, thanks for the response. I sadly agree with you. Did you get a look of the pics I found on the internet above? Although not that close, it looks like one is earlier and the other later and they look "normal" to me. As GB stated I remember some Big blocks looking odd but never a small block.

The owner has some kind of inspection report and insinuates that its been NCRS judged but is somewhat "hostile" if you question anything about the car. I would love to see them,if not to simply vet the car but to learn a little more. I doubt it will happen. Never understand the attitude!??!!!

Thanks again Ike

 

I'd tell the owner to pack sand and take his attitude with him personally. It is a base engine 68, not an L88. Regardless, still a good chunk of change and if you only want a car with an original drivetrain ( which is what I would want), you have every right to question anything unusual. If he puts up a wall I would walk. It's your money he wants and there are plenty others out there. Go for the L79 anyway!

Regarding the stamp, how do all the other characters look? It is hard to see. If everything else looks good, I would have a hard time understanding why someone would fake one letter on a base SB.
I can tell you the build date of that engine seems right to me. My 68 is 700 ish cars later than that.

 

Avalonjohn agreed it does not make sense and its hard to ignore all these types. I seem to find them and alot of them seem to own old Vettes!!

I assume yours is not a HE block? If it is can you post a pic?

Unfortunately that all the photos I got from the owner and again he was explaining to me how "difficult they were to get" due to the cars parked position. I think and my gut feeling is that the rest of the car matches out, but again no direct pic proofs My thought is that perhaps the "E" was light as you can see in the other pics and the owner at some point decided to enhance it.

My concern that even if the rest of the car is correct the possibly "enhanced" pad will always be a detraction in evaluating the car and affect its future value.

I guess I will try to push for more info and see what I get!!!

Ike

 

regarding future value:
there is not much evidence that the appreciation curve for a original engine car and a non original motor car is any different.
Especially for the base engine cars. You just have to buy in at the correct price.

if you require original engine, then this car has a big excuse. if you don't, then discount the car accordingly.
I am sure the seller is getting similar grief from other buyers.

 

i have 2 68s, and while neither is an HE, they look nothing like the original one posted. it almost looks like someone tried to redo the "H" "E" and even the "V"

 

Joewill I find that interesting and may be a sign of the times with the popularity of Restomods.

The usual issue is that the owner insists that it is correct and refuses to adjust the premium that they have added to the asking price for it.

Your right about orhers giving him grief and possibly the cause of his anger and the reason someone spent a lot of $$ for a 20 page report and then did not buy it.

Tiger Joe I didn’t notice the V. I was to busy looking at the H and E. It’s very bad angle to gauge these markings

Thanks Ike

 

gbvette62, I don't see broach marks here, are they always supposed to be visible? what if block had a light redecking? I have seen others that don't show up as well.

 

You have to remember that at some point in time the engine broaches are replaced and nice and sharp. They will leave a nice smooth finish. As they age and dull you will see more distinct broach marks. So their presence and intensity will vary. Ike