Hi all,

First, let me say that this may be a long read, so I will thank you in advance if you make it through and can give me information/advice/guidance. I have been slowly working on my 75 coupe for the better part of a decade, doing things as time permits. Up to this point I have touched, repaired, rebuilt, or replaced nearly every component on the car. Engine rebuilt, switched from auto to 4 speed, refurbished the interior, switched to electric headlights, rebuilt brakes, master cylinder/power brake booster, replaced all rotors, replaced front wheel bearings and removed and replaced trailing arms with rebuilt units, installed a FiTech system, Vintage Air, DeWitts radiator, Borgeson steering, new front springs, shocks, and I'm sure a bunch else that I don't remember. Like I said, it has been more than a decade of doing stuff when I have the time. I enjoy having something that I can work on without the stress of a timetable as to when it needs to get done. I have gotten to the point now where the only thing left to do, without a suspension overhaul, SST 5/6 speed and LS swap is to finally get to the body work. To be clear, I don't see those last items in my future.

With all of that said, I have been dipping my toes into starting repairs on some of the obvious body issues. There was a small chunk of fiberglass that was missing from the back edge of the passenger door as well as multiple holes on each door for side mirrors. Those items have been fixed more or less, but the more attention I pay to the body, the more concerned I become about the alignment of the front clip. To be clear, I had noticed this before, but maybe because there was so much to do, I didn't pay too much attention. Or maybe it is just that I have learned more over the years and what was once an oddity is now making me concerned. I am certain that the car was in some type of accident at some point in its life. The paint appears to be original, and the fender seams are still visible in the paint so I don't believe there was major body damage. When I bought it, the left rear strut rod was very bent, the battery box was (still is) busted out and poorly repaired, and, after rebuilding the front suspension last year, I replaced a slightly bent driver's side upper control arm shaft. While doing a rough alignment, I noticed that the driver side wheel seems to sit 1/2 inch or so further into the wheel well than the passenger side. Perhaps it was run off of the road or something but didn't actually hit anything. I have looked the frame over as closely as I know how and don't see any evidence of welds out of place or obvious signs of being bent but I all just seems a little off. All of this leads me to the problem at hand. The front clip does not line up properly to the front doors and appears to be becoming unbonded to the firewall. To be clear, it looks to me as if the front clip is low in the front and high at the back, creating a gap between the bottom of the fender and the rocker molding as well as very wide gaps at the top of the door/fender. Below are a series of pictures that show what I am talking about.

First is the passenger side working from the rear of the door forward.

You can see the repair I mentioned, but this door gap looks good to me.

Circled in yellow is the area of concern.

A closer look shows passenger side problem area. Looks like the fender/clip is tilted up at the back.

A wider view showing passenger side. Gap at bottom, large gap at the top, and circled in green, although tough to see is that the body line does not match up. It is higher on the fender than the door.

Closer look at the top of the passenger side door gap.


Next let's look at the Driver's side.


Driver's side rear door gap. This looks tight to me.

Better view of the bottom of the Driver's side rear door gap.

Driver's side fender to door alignment. Circled in yell is the separation at issue. Notice in green the obvious mis-alignment.

Driver's side door gap. Again, bigger at the top than the bottom.

Another view of Driver's door gap.


Finally, two spots where the clip is separating from the firewall.


On the driver's side, top of the fender. I can move this just by pulling on it. Maybe 1/4-1/2 inch of movement.

Again, taken from the driver's side. The area beyond the yellow remains bonded. Just the circled area is loose and can be lifted by hand.


It looks to me as if the front clip is low in the front and high at the back, creating the gaps seen between the bottom of the fender and the rocker molding, as well as the larger gaps at the door top and mis-aligned body lines. Question is, how does that happen? And, how does it get fixed? Better question might be, can this be fixed without pulling the front clip off and attaching it properly? I have been fighting the urge to pull the body off for a long time and this isn't helping. I am at the point in my life where my time is becoming less occupied by other priorities so if a major undertaking such as pulling the body needed to happen in order to make this right, now would be the time. Or, if there is the possibility of serious underlying damage that needed to be attended to or assessed, this would be the time. Anyway, thanks again for reading through and looking over the photos. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. If you need to see additional images or different angles, let me know and I can add them.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

I'll bump this to the top. 88 views and no one has an opinion or thought? Hopefully someone who can give me some input will see this.

 

I'm certainly not even close to an expert, but from reading around the internet and such, panel gaps in earlier cars were nothing like they are now, so some of those just may be how it came from the factory. In repainting videos I have seen many shops add patches/extensions to panels to make the gaps even. Also, door hinges sag over time, so that may address some of your door concerns. Sorry not to be more help.

Regards,
Z

 

Thanks for your input. I too have heard/read about the poor fit from the factory it just seems strange to me how the front clip can be fit so poorly.

 

I too have the exact same alignment problem as you've explained, a drooping front clip on my '75. I am going to first replace the body mounts and then go from there. I also looked into shimming the core support, or adjusting the two front frame extensions that seem to be supporting the front of the clip.When I bought mine I had to replace the front urethane nose due to damage. That front nose damage was the likely culprit in my case and would suspect yours may have come to the same demise. Although I know I am replacing the body mounts, I am still researching how to go about adjusting the front clip and what those possibilities look like.

Going to follow your post and good luck.
Pat

 

Hi Pat. Thanks for your response. Good to know that I am not the only one. I really struggle understanding how that junction between the front clip and the firewall can be so misaligned. Considering how the front clip is bonded, the amount of misalignment seems as if it would prevent enough surface or the two surfaces to bond. I have begun wondering if instead of the nose drooping, maybe the firewall is sitting too high.

 

My 79 was even worse, I went though everything but could find no conclusive reason, how could such a piece of junk ever get through a showroom but it did. I separated and re glued the front fender then added extensions to the door and fender to rework the gap. When I removed the fender I had to cut out so much excess adhesive it was untrue but once cleared out I was able to correctly bond the fender to the bird cage and line up the door and fender. Good luck with yours.
Pete

 

I have looked all over the front and underside of the car. I can see no damage to the frame or the front extensions. All of the bracing is in place. I think mine is like yours. Just very poorly placed on the car with tons of adhesive filling the gaps. When I look down past the screens in the cowl I can see what looks like adhesive cracking and coming apart. There is so much space between the top of the fender, where it meets the windshield, that I can put my entire hand in there. So did you remove just the fender or the entire front clip? I am thinking that I have a frame off in my future.

 

Yep exactly the same, I thought maybe collision damage but the frame and birdcage are perfect. I used a saw blade to cut through the adhesive at the top then separated the fender from the pillar. Again no damage anywhere. Once separated I was able to go in with a woodworking chisel and shave away all the adhesive which was factory. I then bonded the fender back into place and clamped it all up until it cured. Hate to say this as it sounds so judgmental but going of this car GM build quality and workmanship is disgusting no craftsmanship there.

 

On the passenger side will the door go up? Have you replaced the pins and bushing in both door hinges? you just need to move the doors until you get the best gap then add Vette panel bond and make the gaps. Its a lot of work.

 

I hear what you are saying about door movement and I agree that gaps, to a certain extent, can be managed by R&Ring hinges and up/down, forward/back adjustment. So I went out to the garage to see how much play I have. The passenger side door does not move at all, solid as a rock. There is minor movement on the driver's side, makes sense as that door, over the life of the car, gets used more. With that said, the gaps in the following pictures seem, to me, to be unrelated to door positioning. These gaps seem excessive and problematic. The passenger side is significantly worse than the driver's side by the way. These gaps, to me, indicate that the front clip is out of place. Whether that happened during assembly or through some form of high speed violence is uncertain. I'm just wondering how to fix it, even though I probably know, just don't want to accept it.


Shouldn't this gap be much tighter?

I don't think that there should be this much room.

Shouldn't the yellow arrow fit into the notch with the blue arrow? It does on the driver's side.

Here with the rocker molding removed.

And a closer view with the rocker molding removed.

 

On you passenger side the door looks ok to the back fender but it looks like the front fender is high like you say. The fender needs to drop but check the hood alignment as well. You drivers side gaps looks to be over trimmed and you will need to build it out as already suggested. Compare where your fender top is on the passenger side to the windscreen pillar then go look at your drivers side. The drivers side looks about right the passenger side is out it should cover the pillar the same as the drivers side. There is room at the bottom to drop it lower on the birdcage. I am doing my best to help you going off what I see in your photos. Remember you are working with SMC so use epoxy based resins and avoid polyesters. To separate the bonded joints use a heat gun and painters hand scrapper tool. Hope this helps you.

 

[QUOTE=Pzark;1601054650]On you passenger side the door looks ok to the back fender but it looks like the front fender is high like you say. The fender needs to drop but check the hood alignment as well. You drivers side gaps looks to be over trimmed and you will need to build it out as already suggested. Compare where your fender top is on the passenger side to the windscreen pillar then go look at your drivers side. The drivers side looks about right the passenger side is out it should cover the pillar the same as the drivers side. There is room at the bottom to drop it lower on the birdcage. I am doing my best to help you going off what I see in your photos. Remember you are working with SMC so use epoxy based resins and avoid polyesters. To separate the bonded joints use a heat gun and painters hand scrapper tool. Hope this helps you.

It does help and I genuinely appreciate the input. At this point I am just deciding how far I want to take it. Considering that the clip on the driver's side, while positioned reasonably well, is coming undone, along with the train wreck on the passenger side, I may just remove the whole clip and re attach the whole thing properly. I feel myself running full speed toward a rabbit hole.

 

Have you checked the radiator support? The one on my 75 was rusted and let nose drop down. That opened up the gap between the top of the door and fender. If yours is still solid look for shims between the bottom of the support and frame. You can add shims to raise the nose and close the gap at the top of the door.
After I put in a new support and shims it took a few days for the gap to close up. Like yours mine was worse on the right side than the left so I added an extra shim on that side.
I hope that helps.
Bob

 

I looked the radiator support over very closely when I had the engine out for rebuild. Minor surface rust but nothing deeper. I will look more closely for shims though. Thanks.

 

Double check the body mounts, esp in the front. The bonding material they used back then got brittle after several years then eventually crack. People used their cars for more daily driving back then too. Rust from water often occurs at the joint at the A-Pillar ..and even worse once the adhesive starts to crack. Also don't forget, metal and fiberglass have different expansion/contraction rates. How they put them together, it's surprising they DO hold up this long.
Ensure your door hinges are in good condition (as mentioned by others).

You're probably right, someone probably took er to the track or was driving like a bat-out-of-hell and could have 360'd it across a ditch into a cornfield. One of those "We're lucky we didn't flip it" kind of accidents. Those things can really shake up a car that's already got brittle bonding. It's not that hard to remove the front end, but you may be able to take a cut down (narrower) wood hand-saw blade and get in there and saw that old bonding material out and also knock any rust off the a-pillar bonding area (with the saw teeth), then re-do the bonding in place w/o having to remove. Make sure everything's level first and hinges good, doors aligned. Check the rear fenders too, esp by the back doors and the bottom front edges. They come loose there too.


.

 

I found this on a post here a while back....

Front Clip Alignment:

Although the hood is raised it looks to be even across. When you installed the Rod and loosened the horseshoe bracket you also need to loosen the frame extension brackets. This will allow you to raise the nose upward. At that time you can tighten the support rod and go back and lock in the frame extensions and horseshoe bracket. You should be able to decrease what you have now showing. Then you could look at the shims if needed. Basically have those area loose to adjust the nose upward. Jack under the front cross member and go slow and watch and listen, There is a lot of flex in that part of the nose to move up but still go slow and watch the hood seam to see if it changes. When you get it right lock down the support rod and at least 1 bolt on each extension to hold things in place.


Front end clip adjustment

 

Thanks RedVette. What I struggle with is understanding how to break the remaining bond between the firewall and front clip sufficient to remove the old bonding agent, prepare the surfaces, and apply new bonding material, without taking the clip off. Furthermore, how much can the gap close without breaking the factory bond? It seems counter-intuitive to me that I could raise/lower the radiator support (or other adjustment points) and have areas of the front clip move. Doesn't that run counter to the purpose of the bonding adhesive?

 

Rookie advice here:
Don't work on the clip gaps yet until you solve the door gap problems...or you will be wasting time/energy/materials.
As other members said-repair/rebuild/adjust/or replace the door hinges so the gap at the rear of EACH door looks exactly the way it should where it aligns with the quarter panel.
You should be able to fit a 1/8" thick plastic or wooden "shim" in the gap without the shim binding. The gap should NOT be so wide that a 3/16" thick shim will fit loosely in the gap.



Adjusting the top hinge so that the top corner of the door moves rearward should cause the gap in the pic below to "close".


Once you have the rear gaps on the doors looking good......decide if the bottom edges of each door need to be reworked with fiberglass and/or body filler to correct the problem.....then correct the issues.
(Is the rocker panel "sitting/attached too low"?}



Let us know how those repairs look/take pics as you make the repairs so members can advise you.

THEN....you can tackle the clip alignment at the front of the doors.

 

Makes sense. The post I attached was to raise the front of the clip to get the hood in the front more inline. I did not even realize the clip was bonded to the firewall frame but after just now investigating it sure feels like it. I have a similar issue with my drivers side fender being too high in relation to the door but most all the rest of my gaps are decent enough for the manufacturing time period. We have some real good experts here and I am sure they will be able to advise shortly.


Fender door alignment gap