C3 Power Steering Pump Data Overload
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
C3 Power Steering Pump Data Overload
I'm trying to make sense of all the insane variation in specs on the C3 power steering pumps over the years to decide what pump I can go with to work with all my aftermarket goodies.
My requirements:
1. Work with my Steeroids rack that wants to see a pump ideally in the 1,000 - 1,200 PSI range and NO MORE THAN 2 gallons / minute (Steeroids says that flow rates greater than this causes the fluid to overheat and the rack to prematurely fail unless you are also sending the fluid to a cooler or a hydroboost unit.)
2. Work well with an aluminum pulley: No spinning the thing off as things heat up and cool down.
3. Work in the stock mounting location with stock brackets
Nice-to-haves:
1. Shiny chrome reservoir
2. Reservoir in original "canned ham" style that came on my 79
IMO, #2 means that I should NOT be using a pressed-on pulley although March and Billet Specialties seem to make one, the difference in the rate of heat expansion of aluminum and the hub just seem like a bad idea and a recipe for throwing off a pulley.
Saginaw Pump Specs Over the Years:
Corvette Saginaw Pump Specifics:
Big questions I have: Mounting Brackets and spacing (pulley distance from block) -Are the mounting bolts / brackets different across the years? -I'm assuming that the spacing is the same as accessories I believe are all spaced the same across the years.
Thoughts on selection:
I've seen some supposed "Corvette" Saginaw P power steering pumps that support keyed pulleys and nuts from the earlier pumps but the canned ham -style reservoirs. This seems like the way to go for me as I want an aluminum pulley and I think theyr'e safer with a keyed pulley rather than a press-on, AND the earlier pumps don't exceed the recommended 2 gallons per minute of the Steeroid rack...
Adam
My requirements:
1. Work with my Steeroids rack that wants to see a pump ideally in the 1,000 - 1,200 PSI range and NO MORE THAN 2 gallons / minute (Steeroids says that flow rates greater than this causes the fluid to overheat and the rack to prematurely fail unless you are also sending the fluid to a cooler or a hydroboost unit.)
2. Work well with an aluminum pulley: No spinning the thing off as things heat up and cool down.
3. Work in the stock mounting location with stock brackets
Nice-to-haves:
1. Shiny chrome reservoir
2. Reservoir in original "canned ham" style that came on my 79
IMO, #2 means that I should NOT be using a pressed-on pulley although March and Billet Specialties seem to make one, the difference in the rate of heat expansion of aluminum and the hub just seem like a bad idea and a recipe for throwing off a pulley.
Saginaw Pump Specs Over the Years:
- P Series
- 1964-1974 SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fitting; 5/8" keyed shaft with woodruf keys to hold on pullies
- 1975-1979 SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fittings; 3/4 PRESS ON shaft
- 1980+ Metric threads; metric o-ring fitting, 3/4" PRESS ON shaft
- The can styles, necks, caps, clocking, and return hose fitting placement vary between vehicles so stick with C3 Corvette-specific pumps. Some of the specs vary across the years in C3s, too so see C3-specific info below.
- NOTE: Pressures of many aftermarket pumps are WAY higher than stock (1,400 even 1,500 PSI); C3s all came with around 950 PSI pressure and stock hoses are only designed for up to 900 PSI presssure...
- Type 2
- The successor of the P Series pump; just listed to mention NOT THESE!
Corvette Saginaw Pump Specifics:
- 68-74: SAE threads, SAE inverted flare fitting 5/8" keyed shaft w nut and woodruf key; "Long Neck" can
- 67-69 flow rate: 1.75 gal / min
- 70-73 flow rate: 1.6 gal / min
- 74 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 75-79: SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fitting; 3/4" PRESS-ON pulley; "Canned Ham" style reservoir
- 75-79 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 80-82: Metric fittings; "Metric" stamped on outside; spam can reservoir; M10x1.5
- 80-81 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 82 flow rate: 1.9 gal / min
Big questions I have: Mounting Brackets and spacing (pulley distance from block) -Are the mounting bolts / brackets different across the years? -I'm assuming that the spacing is the same as accessories I believe are all spaced the same across the years.
Thoughts on selection:
I've seen some supposed "Corvette" Saginaw P power steering pumps that support keyed pulleys and nuts from the earlier pumps but the canned ham -style reservoirs. This seems like the way to go for me as I want an aluminum pulley and I think theyr'e safer with a keyed pulley rather than a press-on, AND the earlier pumps don't exceed the recommended 2 gallons per minute of the Steeroid rack...
Adam
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 363
From: Lubbock Texas
I was watching some car show I recorded a few weeks back and they had added an adjustable power steering flow valve so they could better dial in the correct pressure for the system they were running. Can't remember what show but seems like it was some of the Hot Rod Magazine guys so probably Hot Rod Garage but maybe Roadkill.
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Chrome, 1200 PSI, can spam-style, SAE fittings, keyed pulley: https://www.cvfracing.com/saginaw-p-...-keyway-shaft/
Seems to match everything I need. Now I just need to find an aluminum pulley for it...
Hunting pulley specs...
Adam
Seems to match everything I need. Now I just need to find an aluminum pulley for it...
Hunting pulley specs...
Adam
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
I'm trying to make sense of all the insane variation in specs on the C3 power steering pumps over the years to decide what pump I can go with to work with all my aftermarket goodies.
My requirements:
1. Work with my Steeroids rack that wants to see a pump ideally in the 1,000 - 1,200 PSI range and NO MORE THAN 2 gallons / minute (Steeroids says that flow rates greater than this causes the fluid to overheat and the rack to prematurely fail unless you are also sending the fluid to a cooler or a hydroboost unit.)
2. Work well with an aluminum pulley: No spinning the thing off as things heat up and cool down.
3. Work in the stock mounting location with stock brackets
Nice-to-haves:
1. Shiny chrome reservoir
2. Reservoir in original "canned ham" style that came on my 79
IMO, #2 means that I should NOT be using a pressed-on pulley although March and Billet Specialties seem to make one, the difference in the rate of heat expansion of aluminum and the hub just seem like a bad idea and a recipe for throwing off a pulley.
Saginaw Pump Specs Over the Years:
Corvette Saginaw Pump Specifics:
Big questions I have: Mounting Brackets and spacing (pulley distance from block) -Are the mounting bolts / brackets different across the years? -I'm assuming that the spacing is the same as accessories I believe are all spaced the same across the years.
Thoughts on selection:
I've seen some supposed "Corvette" Saginaw P power steering pumps that support keyed pulleys and nuts from the earlier pumps but the canned ham -style reservoirs. This seems like the way to go for me as I want an aluminum pulley and I think theyr'e safer with a keyed pulley rather than a press-on, AND the earlier pumps don't exceed the recommended 2 gallons per minute of the Steeroid rack...
Adam
My requirements:
1. Work with my Steeroids rack that wants to see a pump ideally in the 1,000 - 1,200 PSI range and NO MORE THAN 2 gallons / minute (Steeroids says that flow rates greater than this causes the fluid to overheat and the rack to prematurely fail unless you are also sending the fluid to a cooler or a hydroboost unit.)
2. Work well with an aluminum pulley: No spinning the thing off as things heat up and cool down.
3. Work in the stock mounting location with stock brackets
Nice-to-haves:
1. Shiny chrome reservoir
2. Reservoir in original "canned ham" style that came on my 79
IMO, #2 means that I should NOT be using a pressed-on pulley although March and Billet Specialties seem to make one, the difference in the rate of heat expansion of aluminum and the hub just seem like a bad idea and a recipe for throwing off a pulley.
Saginaw Pump Specs Over the Years:
- P Series
- 1964-1974 SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fitting; 5/8" keyed shaft with woodruf keys to hold on pullies
- 1975-1979 SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fittings; 3/4 PRESS ON shaft
- 1980+ Metric threads; metric o-ring fitting, 3/4" PRESS ON shaft
- The can styles, necks, caps, clocking, and return hose fitting placement vary between vehicles so stick with C3 Corvette-specific pumps. Some of the specs vary across the years in C3s, too so see C3-specific info below.
- NOTE: Pressures of many aftermarket pumps are WAY higher than stock (1,400 even 1,500 PSI); C3s all came with around 950 PSI pressure and stock hoses are only designed for up to 900 PSI presssure...
- Type 2
- The successor of the P Series pump; just listed to mention NOT THESE!
Corvette Saginaw Pump Specifics:
- 68-74: SAE threads, SAE inverted flare fitting 5/8" keyed shaft w nut and woodruf key; "Long Neck" can
- 67-69 flow rate: 1.75 gal / min
- 70-73 flow rate: 1.6 gal / min
- 74 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 75-79: SAE threads; SAE inverted flare fitting; 3/4" PRESS-ON pulley; "Canned Ham" style reservoir
- 75-79 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 80-82: Metric fittings; "Metric" stamped on outside; spam can reservoir; M10x1.5
- 80-81 flow rate: 2.9 gal / min
- 82 flow rate: 1.9 gal / min
Big questions I have: Mounting Brackets and spacing (pulley distance from block) -Are the mounting bolts / brackets different across the years? -I'm assuming that the spacing is the same as accessories I believe are all spaced the same across the years.
Thoughts on selection:
I've seen some supposed "Corvette" Saginaw P power steering pumps that support keyed pulleys and nuts from the earlier pumps but the canned ham -style reservoirs. This seems like the way to go for me as I want an aluminum pulley and I think theyr'e safer with a keyed pulley rather than a press-on, AND the earlier pumps don't exceed the recommended 2 gallons per minute of the Steeroid rack...
Adam
https://www.turnone-steering.com/
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
95% of that variation is to accommodate how the pump is mounted / location on the engine. If you must have it 'fit' like an original piece on your car, you probably need an 'original' pump for your model year and engine option. Otherwise, find a replacement pump and adapt it to the engine. If you need, you can put alternator and power steering on one V-belt, as long as there is adequate engagement of that belt on both drive pulleys.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,404
Likes: 791
From: Redondo Beach, California
About 10 years or so ago, there was a retired Saginaw engineer that could have probably answered this. His last name was Shea. He participated in CF and also had a lot of documents on a Corvette FAQ website. Don't know if he's still a'kicking. Just a treasure trove of information.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 121
From: Kernersville NC
I was watching some car show I recorded a few weeks back and they had added an adjustable power steering flow valve so they could better dial in the correct pressure for the system they were running. Can't remember what show but seems like it was some of the Hot Rod Magazine guys so probably Hot Rod Garage but maybe Roadkill.
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Jim Shea is still around but visits this site infrequently. Very knowledgeable person with many years of experience at Saginaw Steering (GM division). I miss his presence here; he has helped many folks with C3 steering issues.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Adam
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I was watching some car show I recorded a few weeks back and they had added an adjustable power steering flow valve so they could better dial in the correct pressure for the system they were running. Can't remember what show but seems like it was some of the Hot Rod Magazine guys so probably Hot Rod Garage but maybe Roadkill.
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
Don't know if this is the one they used but it looks similar: https://www.performanceonline.com/Ad...ng-Flow-Valve/
Maybe this will give you some more options.
DC
I found the MFGR. They patented this, which is why all of them seem to look the same regardless of who sells them: https://www.heidts.com/part/adjustab...-valve-ps-101/
Adam
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 363
From: Lubbock Texas
It's not about reliability of a stock pump. It's about custom cars and custom applications where the steering feel is not ideal. It's a solution to a problem that many people have when building custom hot rods. As far as one more thing to fail, that's what I said when someone told me I should ditch the Borgeson system and go back to the factory system
DC
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 769
Likes: 343
From: Mooresville NC
I'm looking for almost the exact same requirements in the power steering pump / pulley that you were. Could you send me a link to the pump and the pulley so I could take a look?
Thanks in advance...
KT