Need Advice - Shop Built Engine Failed
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 20,209
Likes: 9,347
From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
THe oil changed in the last decade to eliminate so many of the specific lubricatioons that prevent that severe metal to metal contact during breaking, the phosphates and zincs, so you need break in oil heavy in those minerals and chemicals. More and more aluminum heads are coming with roller lifter cams that have a higher seat pressure and can contribute to wear prior to a proper breakin. THeres a lot of things you can do to prevent it. Ive swapped cams or built an engine every year for the last 5 years and never wiped a cam either. So if a shop wipes a cam that should have more experience than I do with building motors, get a new shop or they should rebuild you motor for free.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 1,120
From: North tonawanda NY
Earlier this year my grandson and I installed a Howards flat tappet cam, part # 112001 -14,in my 76. It's running 624 heads with 1.94 valves and stock springs. The cam specs are, intake valve lift .410 and duration of 255º, exhaust valve lift .420 and duration of 261º. The lobe separation is 114º and the intake C/L is 110º. I did not remove the inner springs on break-in but I did run the valves rather loose.
So far I have about 1500 miles on the engine with no problems and I don't expect any. Being "old school" I wouldn't consider a flat tappet cam fro any one but Isky, Howards, Sig Erson, Crower, or someone who has been in this business longer than I've been alive and I'll be 78 in August.
Just my opinion, but anyone who is trying to run a high lift flat tappet cam and much less than 114º lobe separation on the street is asking for trouble.
So far I have about 1500 miles on the engine with no problems and I don't expect any. Being "old school" I wouldn't consider a flat tappet cam fro any one but Isky, Howards, Sig Erson, Crower, or someone who has been in this business longer than I've been alive and I'll be 78 in August.
Just my opinion, but anyone who is trying to run a high lift flat tappet cam and much less than 114º lobe separation on the street is asking for trouble.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 1,120
From: North tonawanda NY
If your on a budget... I just used these retro roller lifter in my conversion and they work well. Ive had zero issues but only a few hundred miles on the so far. Still every penny counts and this saved me a couple hundred over others. https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/en...ve+lifter,5548 if your a Gluten for punishment, I have a lunati(also comp owned) voodoo 262/268 cam with matching lifters already broken in with 7k on them Im looking to unload as well as a comp 268h cam with lifters. both flat tappets. I bought the voodoo new and used the correct recommended valve springs with the combo.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Jul 28, 2021 at 10:49 PM.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Jebby...I like how you don't beat around the bush. Your opinion of "professional" mechanics is pretty much in line with mine.
OP , this sucks. Sorry to hear it and it puts you between a rock and a hard place, since they can just lie to you regarding any questions you ask about the break in process. I would be leaning towards using someone else if I even got a wiff that they are not being completely honest.
Gotta do this face to face so you can see their reactions. Over the phone won't cut it.
OP , this sucks. Sorry to hear it and it puts you between a rock and a hard place, since they can just lie to you regarding any questions you ask about the break in process. I would be leaning towards using someone else if I even got a wiff that they are not being completely honest.
Gotta do this face to face so you can see their reactions. Over the phone won't cut it.
They cause more grief and unfinished projects than any other single thing….
This is a hobby….a very expensive one, and giving false info and shoddy work is criminal…..
Attention to detail should be the default of anyone who claims to work on things for a living…..as should knowing how things work…..
I could never work on cars for a living because I would never make any money! Lol!
Jebby
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Roller will only help w/more power and pass smog. ZZ9 cam is popular and will pass for instance
Jebby mentioned lifters spinning freely...too many guys glop tons of stuff on their lifters well guess whats toughter to rotate?
I only use oil on lifters thats it. Ditto on comp lube its garbage.
Jebby mentioned lifters spinning freely...too many guys glop tons of stuff on their lifters well guess whats toughter to rotate?
I only use oil on lifters thats it. Ditto on comp lube its garbage.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 44,671
Likes: 1,830
From: Huntsville AL
THe oil changed in the last decade to eliminate so many of the specific lubricatioons that prevent that severe metal to metal contact during breaking, the phosphates and zincs, so you need break in oil heavy in those minerals and chemicals. More and more aluminum heads are coming with roller lifter cams that have a higher seat pressure and can contribute to wear prior to a proper breakin. THeres a lot of things you can do to prevent it. Ive swapped cams or built an engine every year for the last 5 years and never wiped a cam either. So if a shop wipes a cam that should have more experience than I do with building motors, get a new shop or they should rebuild you motor for free.
1) DELVAC 1300 15W-40
2) GM EOS Zinc
3) Driven Assembly Lube
4) Driven Assembly Lube, Moly (lifters)
5) Driven GP-1 Gel Cam Lube
6) Permatex Ultra-Black
7) Permatex Anaerobic Sealant
8) Permatex Indian Head
9) Zerex Anti-Freeze
10) 3M Yellow Weatherstrip (old school stand-by)
Break in the cam, replace the oil filter, top off with oil and drive car for 500 miles than change oil and filter.
I also have a start stand I built with radiator, fan and full gauges for engine break-in to head off any issues before installing engine in a car. Like Jebby I could never do this type work for a living because I'm too **** when it comes to details and it takes me 2-3 times longer to get anything done.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Spot on IMO. Too many alternatives on the market when it comes to petroleum, oil and lubricants (POL) to not get this right. Jebby touched on a couple of those, my engine rebuild POL list is;
1) DELVAC 1300 15W-40
2) GM EOS Zinc
3) Driven Assembly Lube
4) Driven Assembly Lube, Moly (lifters)
5) Driven GP-1 Gel Cam Lube
6) Permatex Ultra-Black
7) Permatex Anaerobic Sealant
8) Permatex Indian Head
9) Zerex Anti-Freeze
10) 3M Yellow Weatherstrip (old school stand-by)
Break in the cam, replace the oil filter, top off with oil and drive car for 500 miles than change oil and filter.
I also have a start stand I built with radiator, fan and full gauges for engine break-in to head off any issues before installing engine in a car. Like Jebby I could never do this type work for a living because I'm too **** when it comes to details and it takes me 2-3 times longer to get anything done.
1) DELVAC 1300 15W-40
2) GM EOS Zinc
3) Driven Assembly Lube
4) Driven Assembly Lube, Moly (lifters)
5) Driven GP-1 Gel Cam Lube
6) Permatex Ultra-Black
7) Permatex Anaerobic Sealant
8) Permatex Indian Head
9) Zerex Anti-Freeze
10) 3M Yellow Weatherstrip (old school stand-by)
Break in the cam, replace the oil filter, top off with oil and drive car for 500 miles than change oil and filter.
I also have a start stand I built with radiator, fan and full gauges for engine break-in to head off any issues before installing engine in a car. Like Jebby I could never do this type work for a living because I'm too **** when it comes to details and it takes me 2-3 times longer to get anything done.
I never use assembly lube either…..not on a V8 because I can prime it before start….motorcycle engines I use assembly lube on mains and rods.
I use the Lucas ZDDP additive 1/2 bottle and flavor of the week 15w40 diesel…..
Don’t forget the distilled water for your antifreeze.
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jul 31, 2021 at 05:10 PM.
