Front end alignment '81
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 351
Front end alignment '81
I checked the front end alignment with a home laser tracking gauge which showed 10 minutes toe-in, barely any at all but definitely room for a little more, but nothing needing immediate attention.
The manual states between 3/16 and 5/16 toe, so if we soot for the middle, that's 1/4 inch, or 0.53 degrees - approx 35 minutes, so I'm pretty close.
I drove the car properly for the first time today and noticed two things, the steering wheel is about 10 degrees out which is an easy fix, but the car does pull to the right and has a slightly overly sensitive and excessively light feel about centre, almost as if there is a fair bit of toe-out.
My thoughts were that as long as the toe was there or there about, which I believe it is, other than the steering wheel being straight or not, the car should not pull. The tire pressures are all good and the road level.
Maybe I need to re-check the alignment again, but it struck me as odd.
Or perhaps the rear is out?
The manual states between 3/16 and 5/16 toe, so if we soot for the middle, that's 1/4 inch, or 0.53 degrees - approx 35 minutes, so I'm pretty close.
I drove the car properly for the first time today and noticed two things, the steering wheel is about 10 degrees out which is an easy fix, but the car does pull to the right and has a slightly overly sensitive and excessively light feel about centre, almost as if there is a fair bit of toe-out.
My thoughts were that as long as the toe was there or there about, which I believe it is, other than the steering wheel being straight or not, the car should not pull. The tire pressures are all good and the road level.
Maybe I need to re-check the alignment again, but it struck me as odd.
Or perhaps the rear is out?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 7,654
Likes: 2,469
From: Indiana
I would once in its life take in for 4 wheel alignment… call around and bring your own rear shims
post 46
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uestion-3.html
post 46
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uestion-3.html
Last edited by interpon; Aug 7, 2021 at 12:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 351
I would once in its life take in for 4 wheel alignment… call around and bring your own rear shims
post 46
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uestion-3.html
post 46
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uestion-3.html
Will take a look at link...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 351
Quick question....
I've never understood the use of a finite measurements when dealing with alignment - i.e a measurement in inches or whatever, as that is only accurate at a specific point from the pivot.
Surely degrees is the more definitive measurement as it doesn't matter where you measure from?
I've never understood the use of a finite measurements when dealing with alignment - i.e a measurement in inches or whatever, as that is only accurate at a specific point from the pivot.
Surely degrees is the more definitive measurement as it doesn't matter where you measure from?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 363
From: Lubbock Texas
Lars has written a paper that shows how to DIY the rear alignment. Not sure if he has one on the front. There are some folks on this forum that have done their own front alignments.
The factory alignment specs for these cars was fairly conservative. Many of the gurus have published their own alignment specs. I put together a file awhile back that lists several of these specs along with an average and what I determined to be a consensus I would use for my '73. See attached. I finally found an alignment specialist near me who was able to use my specs and get it dialed in fairly close. I'm happy with the results.
DC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 363
From: Lubbock Texas
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Melting Slicks
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I checked the front end alignment with a home laser tracking gauge which showed 10 minutes toe-in, barely any at all but definitely room for a little more, but nothing needing immediate attention.
The manual states between 3/16 and 5/16 toe, so if we soot for the middle, that's 1/4 inch, or 0.53 degrees - approx 35 minutes, so I'm pretty close.
I drove the car properly for the first time today and noticed two things, the steering wheel is about 10 degrees out which is an easy fix, but the car does pull to the right and has a slightly overly sensitive and excessively light feel about centre, almost as if there is a fair bit of toe-out.
My thoughts were that as long as the toe was there or there about, which I believe it is, other than the steering wheel being straight or not, the car should not pull. The tire pressures are all good and the road level.
Maybe I need to re-check the alignment again, but it struck me as odd.
Or perhaps the rear is out?
The manual states between 3/16 and 5/16 toe, so if we soot for the middle, that's 1/4 inch, or 0.53 degrees - approx 35 minutes, so I'm pretty close.
I drove the car properly for the first time today and noticed two things, the steering wheel is about 10 degrees out which is an easy fix, but the car does pull to the right and has a slightly overly sensitive and excessively light feel about centre, almost as if there is a fair bit of toe-out.
My thoughts were that as long as the toe was there or there about, which I believe it is, other than the steering wheel being straight or not, the car should not pull. The tire pressures are all good and the road level.
Maybe I need to re-check the alignment again, but it struck me as odd.
Or perhaps the rear is out?
As already linked here is my DIY alignment method I use for track days.
My DIY Alignment method - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,694
Likes: 833
From: WI
I haven't done it, but I happened upon some videos where a guy can use a cell phone (with an angle app) for alignment. Sounds crazy but might Youtube it...
Probably the best would be to find out from some Corvette guys which local shop can do good 4-wheel alignments on C2/3's. Or call the shop and see if they do many corvettes and know what they're doing. I would stay there and watch them. I've had some guys do excellent alignments, and a couple shotty alignment jobs, so do your checking. Or do it yourself if you don't mind taking the time.
Probably the best would be to find out from some Corvette guys which local shop can do good 4-wheel alignments on C2/3's. Or call the shop and see if they do many corvettes and know what they're doing. I would stay there and watch them. I've had some guys do excellent alignments, and a couple shotty alignment jobs, so do your checking. Or do it yourself if you don't mind taking the time.
Last edited by Mark G; Aug 7, 2021 at 11:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 351
I haven't done it, but I happened upon some videos where a guy can use a cell phone (with an angle app) for alignment. Sounds crazy but might Youtube it...
Probably the best would be to find out from some Corvette guys which local shop can do good 4-wheel alignments on C2/3's. Or call the shop and see if they do many corvettes and know what they're doing. I would stay there and watch them. I've had some guys do excellent alignments, and a couple shorty alignment jobs, so do your checking. Or do it yourself if you don't mind taking the time.
Probably the best would be to find out from some Corvette guys which local shop can do good 4-wheel alignments on C2/3's. Or call the shop and see if they do many corvettes and know what they're doing. I would stay there and watch them. I've had some guys do excellent alignments, and a couple shorty alignment jobs, so do your checking. Or do it yourself if you don't mind taking the time.
In the mean time, I'll check the rear and do an old school race car string set up and establish some base lines to go from.
To be fair, the tires are 17 years old and about to be replaced, so that very much might have an impact.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 9,063
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2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I intend to do my own alignments from now on, following what Cagotzmann has created (see above links). It looks pretty simple and relatively inexpensive. Even here in the U.S. finding a good alignment shop that 1. Knows how to work on a C3 Corvette and 2. Is willing to spend the required time. I did find a place near me, and he let me watch him do the work, but he also would only spend a certain amount of time making the adjustments,....and then he needed to move on to the next car. His business is getting cars in and out of the shop as fast as possible....not making sure he gets it right. I will say he got it very close. I tweaked it from there....and once I get set up with Cagotzmann's setup, I will be able to do the rest.
One reality is, and I started a thread a few years ago, which you could search for, about expectations on these cars. With shims, rubber mounts, and the design, its is difficult to get exact numbers. Secondly, no matter what you do, you could get it perfect, then drive it around the block, and recheck the alignment, and you WILL find that it has changed slightly. So.....keep that in perspective. What ultimately matters is how it drives, and what kind of tire wear you end up with. Exact numbers is not the goal.
One reality is, and I started a thread a few years ago, which you could search for, about expectations on these cars. With shims, rubber mounts, and the design, its is difficult to get exact numbers. Secondly, no matter what you do, you could get it perfect, then drive it around the block, and recheck the alignment, and you WILL find that it has changed slightly. So.....keep that in perspective. What ultimately matters is how it drives, and what kind of tire wear you end up with. Exact numbers is not the goal.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Aug 8, 2021 at 05:23 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 351
I intend to do my own alignments from now on, following what Cagotzmann has created (see above links). It looks pretty simple and relatively inexpensive. Even here in the U.S. finding a good alignment shop that 1. Knows how to work on a C3 Corvette and 2. Is willing to spend the required time. I did find a place near me, and he let me watch him do the work, but he also would only spend a certain amount of time making the adjustments,....and then he needed to move on to the next car. His business is getting cars in and out of the shop as fast as possible....not making sure he gets it right. I will say he got it very close. I tweaked it from there....and once I get set up with Cagotzmann's setup, I will be able to do the rest.
One reality is, and I started a thread a few years ago, which you could search for, about expectations on these cars. With shims, rubber mounts, and the design, its is difficult to get exact numbers. Secondly, no matter what you do, you could get it perfect, then drive it around the block, and recheck the alignment, and you WILL find that it has changed slightly. So.....keep that in perspective. What ultimately matters is how it drives, and what kind of tire wear you end up with. Exact numbers is not the goal.
One reality is, and I started a thread a few years ago, which you could search for, about expectations on these cars. With shims, rubber mounts, and the design, its is difficult to get exact numbers. Secondly, no matter what you do, you could get it perfect, then drive it around the block, and recheck the alignment, and you WILL find that it has changed slightly. So.....keep that in perspective. What ultimately matters is how it drives, and what kind of tire wear you end up with. Exact numbers is not the goal.
I'll do the castor and camber whilst I'm there.
Few questions....
1) Given I drive on the left side of the road over here in the UK, should any of my settings be biased to compensate for the slight camber in the road, and if so, what and by how much?
2) What is the best order to make adjustments - camber, caster then toe?
3) Someone mentioned checking the adjustment of the power steering control valve which can often be the cause of a car pulling.... its original to the car - are they known to go out of adjustment?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 363
From: Lubbock Texas
See the specs I attached in Post #6. Notice how some of the Caster numbers differ from drivers side to passenger? I think that's to compensate for the slope of the road. Since you drive on the left, I would assume you would simply reverse the drivers side and passenger side specs for your use. I'm not an alignment guru by any means so hopefully someone can confirm.
DC
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
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See the specs I attached in Post #6. Notice how some of the Caster numbers differ from drivers side to passenger? I think that's to compensate for the slope of the road. Since you drive on the left, I would assume you would simply reverse the drivers side and passenger side specs for your use. I'm not an alignment guru by any means so hopefully someone can confirm.
DC
DC
Am I correct in assuming that to make any of these adjustments, a set of shims will be required, unless one is lucky enough to only need to remove shims?
Any advice on what order to do the set up is appreciated - caster, camber then toe?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 308
Likes: 18
From: Sweden
I have one of these and have done my own wheel alignment for many years. It's not that complicated.
For toe in you just need a tape measure.
//Johan
For toe in you just need a tape measure.
//Johan
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
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And Do Not buy into the bullshit about having different settings for the camber of the road. Get it right!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,433
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The results from the string line and inclinometer tests are in (will do caster another day, ran out of time)
Front left
0.3 degrees positive camber
1/32 toe-in, or 0.82 degrees
Front right
0.4 degrees negative camber
Zero toe
Total front toe-in 1/32 or 0.82 degrees. (which is pretty close to my laser alignment gauge)
Rear left
0.5 degrees negative camber
1/16 toe-in, or 0.124 degrees
Right rear
1.1 degrees negative camber
7/64 (close to 1/8) toe-out, or 0.221 degrees
Total rear toe-out 3/64 or less than 1/16
Yes, I need to do the castor, but from the above, I'd be interested to hear folks thoughts, given it pulls to the right fairly strongly and the steering wheel is pointing left about 10 degrees to hold the car straight.
My own thoughts are that the camber is not really a factor at less than half a degree up front, although right rear at 1.1 neg?
Front right could do with a touch of toe-in to match the front left to give a total toe of 1/16 toe-in?
1/8 toe out on the right rear is interesting, although I can't see how that would make it want to steer to the right, especially combined with the left rear toe in - the two combined would make the rear of the car want to steer left, no?
I Welcome thoughts, observations and suggestions on where to start .
Front left
0.3 degrees positive camber
1/32 toe-in, or 0.82 degrees
Front right
0.4 degrees negative camber
Zero toe
Total front toe-in 1/32 or 0.82 degrees. (which is pretty close to my laser alignment gauge)
Rear left
0.5 degrees negative camber
1/16 toe-in, or 0.124 degrees
Right rear
1.1 degrees negative camber
7/64 (close to 1/8) toe-out, or 0.221 degrees
Total rear toe-out 3/64 or less than 1/16
Yes, I need to do the castor, but from the above, I'd be interested to hear folks thoughts, given it pulls to the right fairly strongly and the steering wheel is pointing left about 10 degrees to hold the car straight.
My own thoughts are that the camber is not really a factor at less than half a degree up front, although right rear at 1.1 neg?
Front right could do with a touch of toe-in to match the front left to give a total toe of 1/16 toe-in?
1/8 toe out on the right rear is interesting, although I can't see how that would make it want to steer to the right, especially combined with the left rear toe in - the two combined would make the rear of the car want to steer left, no?
I Welcome thoughts, observations and suggestions on where to start .