4 speed install tips?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
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From: Okemos MI
4 speed install tips? THANK YOU
Thanks to the CF I have made great progress this weekend on my Automatic to 4 speed conversion.
Thanks to all that responded to my questions.
The auto is out and the flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, bushing and bellhousing are in. I cut the floor for the shifter and began to mount the 4 speed. Lots done since friday night...
But I have run into my next challenge...
I can't get the 4 speed mated to the bellhousing I just can't get it in the last 1/2 inch. I wiggle I shake I raise and lower the trans and engine, I rotate the trans and still can't get it in. I considered drawing it in with the bellhousing bolts but was afraid I would break off a trans ear. 
Any tips? am I overlooking something? The bushing and through out bearing are correct size and the number of splines 26 match, the bellhousing fit on the bench.
I did leave the shifter attached to the trans, is this wrong?
Please respond if you have tips?
Thanks,
John
Thanks to all that responded to my questions.
The auto is out and the flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, bushing and bellhousing are in. I cut the floor for the shifter and began to mount the 4 speed. Lots done since friday night...
But I have run into my next challenge...
I can't get the 4 speed mated to the bellhousing I just can't get it in the last 1/2 inch. I wiggle I shake I raise and lower the trans and engine, I rotate the trans and still can't get it in. I considered drawing it in with the bellhousing bolts but was afraid I would break off a trans ear. Any tips? am I overlooking something? The bushing and through out bearing are correct size and the number of splines 26 match, the bellhousing fit on the bench.
I did leave the shifter attached to the trans, is this wrong?
Please respond if you have tips?
Thanks,
John
Last edited by Lotus76; Feb 7, 2005 at 06:09 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 952
Likes: 44
From: NC
This part is a bitch. Getting it in the last 1/2 inch requires much shaking pushing shoving and cursing. I believe what causes it is trying to slide the imput shaft into the pilot bushing. Make sure the pilot bushing is straight. After that its just a matter of wiggling it around. It is a major PITA. I didnt use my jack for this part, i just set the transmission on my chest with my feet pointing towards the front of the car and I lifted it up into the hole and had my buddy guide it in. we still had to shake it around alot. After about the 3rd or 4th try it popped right in and we tightened the bolts down. Sorry this is much help but its what I did.
James
James
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 952
Likes: 44
From: NC
This part is a bitch. Getting it in the last 1/2 inch requires much shaking pushing shoving and cursing. I believe what causes it is trying to slide the imput shaft into the pilot bushing. Make sure the pilot bushing is straight. After that its just a matter of wiggling it around. It is a major PITA. I didnt use my jack for this part, i just set the transmission on my chest with my feet pointing towards the front of the car and I lifted it up into the hole and had my buddy guide it in. we still had to shake it around alot. After about the 3rd or 4th try it popped right in and we tightened the bolts down. Sorry this is much help but its what I did. Oh and my hurst shifter was bolted onto it when i put it in. With the hurst shifter it shouldnt be a big deal, im not sure about the stock shifter.
James
James
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Zionsville, PA NRA Life Member
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Originally Posted by James B
This part is a bitch.
I would like to add two things to check.
1) Did you use a tool or actual splined shaft to make sure the clutch disc and the crank bushing are PERFECTLY in line.
2) Either have the proper plug for the tailshaft or have the tranny low on oil.
I had my room mate help me put a tranny in car when I was younger. He happened to knock the rag out of the end and dumped tranny fluid all over his crotch .
Do you have the clutch linkage hooked up? If so, you may be able to get that last 1/2" by having someone slowly push in the clutch.
NOTE!!!! If this is done incorrectly, the clutch disc can drop out of position and you have to take off the bellhousing and pressure plate to get it correctly lined up AGAIN.
James described the easiest way to get it in. Laying on your back with the tranny on your chest.
Good luck
Jeff
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 38
From: Space Coast Gator Territory
Did you check the pilot bearing to trans input shaft nose for fit? If they fit on the bench and everything else checks out as you say, the trans has to fit. BUT....don't force it on with the bolts. If everything fits and is in alignment it will slide on.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by TJ76
Try operating the clutch to let the input shaft and clutch disc loose so they can line up with pilot bearing.
TJ
TJ
Hopefully with someone working the clutch is will jump in.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
From: pr, frederick md.
Originally Posted by TJ76
Try operating the clutch to let the input shaft and clutch disc loose so they can line up with pilot bearing.
TJ
TJ
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 984
Likes: 23
From: Florence SC
I indicate all of my bellhousings to the crankshafts now, I ran across a block that was out .200" the only way to get the trans. in was to draw it in with the bolts or studs as suggested. It kept breaking the ears off of the transmissions (while being run) until the runnout was repaired. This can be done with offset dowels on the back of the block. The info that comes with the dowels call for <.003 runnout of the bell housing, I have never checked one that was in tolerance to start with. Once this is corrected if it was out bad you won't believe the vibrations that will be eliminated. Good luck with your repair. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
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From: pr, frederick md.
i think you mean index but you are right. had to do this for my tremec swap or they wouldnt give me a warranty. mine was dead on. ( i.e. close enough ). but for his worn 4 speed it shouldnt be a problem.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
From: South Haven MI
I am converting my 79 to a 4 speed also as part of the body off restoration. I had this very same problem, could not get the tranny in on that last 1/2" - 1/4". After much swearing and hours spent verifying alignments, my wife recommended loosening the bellhousing. It worked like a charm. So:
1. loosen bellhousing without tranny so you can move it enough for the tranny to slide into the pilot bushing
2. mount tranny to bellhousing (loosely but in all the way)
3. tighten all bolts
1. loosen bellhousing without tranny so you can move it enough for the tranny to slide into the pilot bushing
2. mount tranny to bellhousing (loosely but in all the way)
3. tighten all bolts
Last edited by jacobsed; Jan 30, 2005 at 08:52 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
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From: Okemos MI
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
I agree. Most of the time I need someone in the car working the clutch. Don't use the bolt to draw it in, you will just damage something. I stud the bellhousing so the transmission can be slid over the studs and some of the weight taken off me while wiggling.
Hopefully with someone working the clutch is will jump in.
Hopefully with someone working the clutch is will jump in.
I got my a** kicked tonight too...
I have some questions.
How long did you make the studs for the bellhousing?
did you use 4 studs or just the top 2?
Thanks again,
John
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 38
From: Space Coast Gator Territory
Make a few phone calls like to your Autozone or Rentall store and get a clutch alignment tool. The tool can be an old input shaft or plastic facsimile. After you have everything aligned, raise the trans up so the input shaft is straight on and sent it home. If it won't go in, then something is not right. The shift linkage is not a problem as long as the stick is removed. I never had a problem installing a trans where all parts fit and most done by myself.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
From: Central KY
If you went crazy pushing and pulling to align the tranny going in you likely have by now pulled the clutch disc out of alignment - even if you used an alignment tool while you tightened down the pressure plate. This happened to me when I installed my Muncie after it was rebuilt. I tried having someone press in the clutch while I went for the last 1/2" but it didn't work. I ended up taking it apart, reinstalling the clutch, and I got the tranny in on my try - straight in!
I hope that having someone work the ctutch for you works, but if not, just redo it and bench-press that tranny right in. The last few millimeters will be taken up when you tighten the 4 tranny bolts - but 1/2" is too much for me to advise just tightening it all down and hoping for it to go in... Just my 2 cents...
Good luck!
I hope that having someone work the ctutch for you works, but if not, just redo it and bench-press that tranny right in. The last few millimeters will be taken up when you tighten the 4 tranny bolts - but 1/2" is too much for me to advise just tightening it all down and hoping for it to go in... Just my 2 cents...
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
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From: Okemos MI
Originally Posted by djcwardog
If you went crazy pushing and pulling to align the tranny going in you likely have by now pulled the clutch disc out of alignment - even if you used an alignment tool while you tightened down the pressure plate. This happened to me when I installed my Muncie after it was rebuilt. I tried having someone press in the clutch while I went for the last 1/2" but it didn't work. I ended up taking it apart, reinstalling the clutch, and I got the tranny in on my try - straight in!
I hope that having someone work the ctutch for you works, but if not, just redo it and bench-press that tranny right in. The last few millimeters will be taken up when you tighten the 4 tranny bolts - but 1/2" is too much for me to advise just tightening it all down and hoping for it to go in... Just my 2 cents...
Good luck!
I hope that having someone work the ctutch for you works, but if not, just redo it and bench-press that tranny right in. The last few millimeters will be taken up when you tighten the 4 tranny bolts - but 1/2" is too much for me to advise just tightening it all down and hoping for it to go in... Just my 2 cents...
Good luck!
I do have an alinement tool. I really hate to remove the bellhousing because its just a PIA but to re-aline everything thats what I must do.
The car is high on jackstands so I can't put the trans on my chest but I do have a floor trans jack (harbor freight) and my plan is to stud the bellhousing and slowly roll the trans on to the studs and with any luck (good luck this time) guide it home..
What makes this tough is I am doing all the work by myself. (I can get my 12 year old to push in the clutch)
Thanks for all your advice
John
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 929
Likes: 5
From: Marietta GA
I had a similar problem when re-installing my 4 speed after a rebuild. Did you change the length of the clutch fork pivot ballstud in the bellhousing? I initially changed to a longer one because I had installed a CentreForce Dual Friction clutch pack and was also hoping to get more adjustment out of the clutch pedal and I all I did was mess with the tranny for over 2 hours with no success in getting the tranny mated up for that last half an inch. I finally went back and changed out the clutch fork pivot ballstud to the shorter stock length and the tranny mated up in less than 30 seconds.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
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From: Okemos MI
Originally Posted by BB68Vett
I had a similar problem when re-installing my 4 speed after a rebuild. Did you change the length of the clutch fork pivot ballstud in the bellhousing? I initially changed to a longer one because I had installed a CentreForce Dual Friction clutch pack and was also hoping to get more adjustment out of the clutch pedal and I all I did was mess with the tranny for over 2 hours with no success in getting the tranny mated up for that last half an inch. I finally went back and changed out the clutch fork pivot ballstud to the shorter stock length and the tranny mated up in less than 30 seconds.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
I pulled the bellhousing and realined the disc again with my alinement tool (it looks perfect)
tried the bellhousing studs , same problems. just cant get that last 1/2 inch. I even tried to put it together without the throwout bearing just so I could see it go together still no luck
Thanks for the suggestion, The parts for this conversion for the most part came from a 73 but the bellhousing I had to find. I have read somewhere that a L-48 had a different clutch fork stud than a L-82, why I do not know.
Can you tell me what length the short and long studs are?
thanks,
John
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,125
Likes: 9
From: Crescent City, CA
John
I went throught the same problems. Had the bellhousing off half a dozen times, trans out a dozen.
The cheap alignment tools are junk.
Had a friend and his girlfriend come over, she pushed the clutch and we wiggled the trans. It was in, in 20 secs.
If your 12 yr old can push the clutch get somebody to help wiggle and push the trans.
Best of luck, it's a pain, but it will go.
Terry
I went throught the same problems. Had the bellhousing off half a dozen times, trans out a dozen.
The cheap alignment tools are junk.
Had a friend and his girlfriend come over, she pushed the clutch and we wiggled the trans. It was in, in 20 secs.
If your 12 yr old can push the clutch get somebody to help wiggle and push the trans.
Best of luck, it's a pain, but it will go.
Terry
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
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From: Okemos MI
Originally Posted by trw
John
I went throught the same problems. Had the bellhousing off half a dozen times, trans out a dozen.
The cheap alignment tools are junk.
Had a friend and his girlfriend come over, she pushed the clutch and we wiggled the trans. It was in, in 20 secs.
If your 12 yr old can push the clutch get somebody to help wiggle and push the trans.
Best of luck, it's a pain, but it will go.
Terry
I went throught the same problems. Had the bellhousing off half a dozen times, trans out a dozen.
The cheap alignment tools are junk.
Had a friend and his girlfriend come over, she pushed the clutch and we wiggled the trans. It was in, in 20 secs.
If your 12 yr old can push the clutch get somebody to help wiggle and push the trans.
Best of luck, it's a pain, but it will go.
Terry
Thanks for the encouragement. I tried that the other night but I had found that the disc was off some. I will try it again.
Thanks
John