Horn - Steering column problem
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 48
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From: Brisbane Qld
Horn - Steering column problem
I've purchased a 69 427 tripower recently which hasn't been driven much since it was restored and had developed a number of electical issues. I've sorted all of them out now except the horn. It appears to me there is a part missing between the copper contact going down into the steering column and the big spring going up to the back of the socket which contains the little pin/spring for the horn button contact. I've circled in red the area I believe is the problem in the photos. If the copper contact is earthed the horn does indeed work.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/phot...6504/horn2.jpg
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/phot...46504/horn.jpg
Can anyone provide any info on how this should have gone together or what part (part number would be good) is missing ?
Thanks,
Dave.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/phot...6504/horn2.jpg
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/phot...46504/horn.jpg
Can anyone provide any info on how this should have gone together or what part (part number would be good) is missing ?
Thanks,
Dave.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
If I remember correctly, there should be three brass contacts that the large spring sits on. In your picture, if the large spring isn't touching the contact that you have circled, it still should still be touching one of the other brass contacts.
The large spring should not be touching any other metal parts inside the column. Metal contact will ground the horn relay causing the horn to blow.
If your horn starts blowing when the spring touches the contact that you have circled, then you have a grounding path somewhere else.
The following link might help in trying to diagnose where the problem is.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/HornOp...osis07JL03.doc
BTW, the white plastic part (GM #7808385 called a retainer) in your picture is very important. It prevents your large spring from touching any other column parts except the brass contacts. My retainer fell apart from old age when I took my column apart. When I reassembled my column without the retainer, my horn would blow continuously. Since I had to order a replacement, I had to Bubba my column by duct taping the spring seating area and only exposing the brass contacts. That homemade fix did work until the new retainer arrived.
The large spring should not be touching any other metal parts inside the column. Metal contact will ground the horn relay causing the horn to blow.
If your horn starts blowing when the spring touches the contact that you have circled, then you have a grounding path somewhere else.
The following link might help in trying to diagnose where the problem is.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/HornOp...osis07JL03.doc
BTW, the white plastic part (GM #7808385 called a retainer) in your picture is very important. It prevents your large spring from touching any other column parts except the brass contacts. My retainer fell apart from old age when I took my column apart. When I reassembled my column without the retainer, my horn would blow continuously. Since I had to order a replacement, I had to Bubba my column by duct taping the spring seating area and only exposing the brass contacts. That homemade fix did work until the new retainer arrived.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
Looking closesly at your pictures, I wonder if that white plastic retainer might not be installed (or oriented) correctly. It seems that the way it is installed it might actually be covering the three brass contacts and preventing the spring from touching any of them. I don't remember if there is an easy way to know which way the retainer is to be oriented in order to be correct (the brass horn contacts must be exposed).
Pro
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 553
Likes: 1
From: Valparaiso IN
Originally Posted by Jim Shea
Looking closesly at your pictures, I wonder if that white plastic retainer might not be installed (or oriented) correctly. It seems that the way it is installed it might actually be covering the three brass contacts and preventing the spring from touching any of them. I don't remember if there is an easy way to know which way the retainer is to be oriented in order to be correct (the brass horn contacts must be exposed).
I think the plastic piece with the brass is upside down. The lock plate should be on top, and the brass pieces should pop thru the lock plate. and the retainer goes over that. There will be more surface area of brass to make contact with the spring..i
Last edited by OldSchool; Feb 2, 2005 at 10:06 AM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 48
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From: Brisbane Qld
Thanks Guys. I'll go and have a play with that plastic retainer - at least now I have an idea of how its supposed to work.
Would very much appreciate a picture of this area.
Thanks,
Dave.
Would very much appreciate a picture of this area.
Thanks,
Dave.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
From your pictures I can see the black shaft lock plate. The cancelling cam assembly appears to be sticking up through the shaft lock plate (like it is supposed to). There appears to be some kind of gray disc on top of the shaft lock plate. I don't know what it is.
The plastic retainer appears not to be oriented correctly.
Bubba has been messing with this steering column.
The plastic retainer appears not to be oriented correctly.
Bubba has been messing with this steering column.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 48
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From: Brisbane Qld
The gray disc in the photo is a plastic insulator.
The white plastic retainer appears that it will always hold the spring off the 3 contacts regardless of how it is rotated - its just too thick to let the spring sit down on them. Is it possible the retainer has been put on the shaft the wrong way round - i.e. the opposite face was supposed to go on first to perhaps hold the spring onto the contacts ? It appears the gray insulator would still stop the spring from shorting out and activating the horn.
Thanks for all your help. I'm in Australia - not much help locally on how a 69 column is supposed to go together ...
The white plastic retainer appears that it will always hold the spring off the 3 contacts regardless of how it is rotated - its just too thick to let the spring sit down on them. Is it possible the retainer has been put on the shaft the wrong way round - i.e. the opposite face was supposed to go on first to perhaps hold the spring onto the contacts ? It appears the gray insulator would still stop the spring from shorting out and activating the horn.
Thanks for all your help. I'm in Australia - not much help locally on how a 69 column is supposed to go together ...
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
I believe that the retainer (GM #7808385) is molded from a plastic like material called urethane. Freshly molded, urethane is a tough, flexible material. However, it is known to crack and crumble with age. Guess what material GM used to mold the nose and tail pieces on the 1973-1982 C3s? Those parts seem to have the same symptoms.
Now age is a relative thing. Most people would tend to agree that a material that performs its function over ten to twelve years (the typical life of a car) then it is probably good enough for non-safety related parts. Our C3s are now from 23 to 37 years old. My 1975 Vert had to have the nose and tail replaced two years ago. My bumper materail had lost all of its resiliency.
One of the toughest things to duplicate in the engineering laboratory is age! You can elevate temperatures, thermal cycle, elevate ozone concentrations, performance test until things break, but you still are never sure that you have duplicated 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, (23 or 37 years) of actual aging.
Now age is a relative thing. Most people would tend to agree that a material that performs its function over ten to twelve years (the typical life of a car) then it is probably good enough for non-safety related parts. Our C3s are now from 23 to 37 years old. My 1975 Vert had to have the nose and tail replaced two years ago. My bumper materail had lost all of its resiliency.
One of the toughest things to duplicate in the engineering laboratory is age! You can elevate temperatures, thermal cycle, elevate ozone concentrations, performance test until things break, but you still are never sure that you have duplicated 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, (23 or 37 years) of actual aging.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 48
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From: Brisbane Qld
Thanks guys I have this working now. Steve kindly sent me a picture.
My plastic retainer is a little different to his and my contacts are smaller. I pulled it all apart and it appeared to be put together properly. Looked like it should have little plugs or something going onto each contact to make them bigger to go onto the spring. Anyway I built up the contacts with some copper and solder and all working now.
My plastic retainer is a little different to his and my contacts are smaller. I pulled it all apart and it appeared to be put together properly. Looked like it should have little plugs or something going onto each contact to make them bigger to go onto the spring. Anyway I built up the contacts with some copper and solder and all working now.
