OK...I need to vent! I have been dabbling in muscle/sports cars for over 25 years now. I recall another period in time, ending abruptly in the early 90's, when cars were bringing exorbitant amounts of money. The end result of that period in this hobby left many poor unfortunates listing their cars for sale at a fraction of their purchase prices. How many of you remember ads in Hemmings for Thunderbolts, Cobras, etc....purchased for $250k, and they wouldn't sell for $100k in 1991! Are we headed now toward the same end? Don't get me wrong, I am all for free market and capitalism, but there are some lessons that apparently have not yet been learned.

Last summer I saw a '67 Shelby GT-500 (NOM) sell for $230k at a Barrett Jackson auction. The Speed Channel moderator subsequently asked the owner how he felt about that. His response (while drooling down the front of his Polo shirt): I would have been ecstatic if it had brought $120k, but I was looking for $90k!!! My point, I believe that the Barrett Jacksons, the classic car dealers, and the wealthy "investors" (not the enthusiasts who own one car, because they love them, but rather those that hoard these cars from the marketplace until the shortage drives the prices up) are the worst things that could happen to our hobby. Your thoughts.

 

This madness is only infecting the high-end portion of the car collecting hobby. Nothing much has changed for the rest of us poor slobs with cars in the sub-$25K range...

 

I've noticed lately, many more "muscle cars" being driven as daily-drivers by, umm...err...how do you say..."Yuppies"? (Is that a bad word?).

Working in South Beach yesterday, THREE cars passed my location within 1 hr. (Eleanor clone, 76 C3 & 67/68 Camaro vert).

Two thoughts: The "non-hobbyists" start buying "our" cars and prices go up (as did when "Harley poser's" appeared on the scene). Secondly (also referring to Harley poser's): Will saturation make our cars less unique? Will we see muscle cars lined up at the Starbucks drive-thru every Sat. morning? One of the reasons I chose/purchased my car was that it isn't something you see regularly. Not sure if it will have that same appeal (to me) if every dufus wearing Tods driving loafers shows up at the mall in a C3...

D. Ocean
Miami, FLA

 

Page, with all due respect, I disagree with you. I definitely believe it DOES have an impact on the prices of even the lowest-end cars.

E.g.#1: I had the chance to purchase a '70 440-6 Challenger R/T, 4-1/2 years ago, for $25k. Original broadcast sheet, Govier documentation, #'s, #2 car. I didn't buy. The same car was for sale, 2 years later for $38k! Do think $38k will buy that car today? Not even close!

E.g.#2: 3 years ago, I was trying to purchase a '67 GTO from a "classic car dealer" here in St. Louis. The car was a base GTO, no documentation, #3+, not a 'vert, not a Ram Air, not an HO...just a plain ol' GTO. I called the previous owner, he said he sold it to the dealer for $18k. A little under market IMO...it was a $21-22k car. I offered the dealer $23k, then $24k, then $25k. No sale! What do you think he wanted for it? $28.5k firm. The dealer could have made $7k from me, having only had the car for 1 week! Instead, it sat for over a year!

 

I believe this was hit on already but these people are buying these cars as they would a painting and hope they go up in value and then put them up for auction again in couple of years. I don't think it's good for the real car guys/gals

 

The only hope we have is that the dufuses wearing Tods won't be able to find good people to work on their C3s and certainly can't work on them themselves, thus making them too "stressful" to own. (not that MY C3 ever needs to be worked on)

 

I think with the exception of telecom/dot coms that we just went through another boom and more folks have much more wealth (disposable income) to blow... and to top that, the folks that like/love/drove the cars (30-45 year olds now) are now at the age where they can afford the cars.....when I graduated in '84 we all were driving late '60s and early 70's sports cars... that is simply what we want now, memories, nostalgia, and we can afford it!

If you have the cash and you love the car...instinct kicks in and you PAY....

Ken Lally

 

Well...in that vein...they aren't making any "new" muscle cars as they are Harley's. I have yet to see an old pan or shovelhead parked in front of the Starbucks...next to the "real" biker's

D. Ocean
Miami, FLA

 

I don't ever plan to sell, so it makes little difference to me.

On the other hand, I found a nice 69 Vert 427CI and the guy wants $65K. After last weeks auctions his price is beginning to seem reasonable.

 

I could see that!

 

Lol...apparently I'm safe from being flamed for my own post, as I don't even know what "Tods" are!

Ken, I'm 45 and can afford (within reason) just about any Corvette I want...I just plain refuse, on principle, to pay some of these prices. Afterall, they are still just 30+ yo cars, with problems, requiring overpriced and ill-fitting replacement parts, and lacking today's comfort and performance (as much as I DO love them).

And OHSIXX, that's exactly what Mr. Jackson wants all of us to think, that maybe these once seemingly exorbitant prices aren't so bad. It puts money in his pocket!

I can't count the number of times I have passed on the purchase of a car, based soley on it being over-priced. I am trying to do my part. Unfortunately, there's always someone following me that has more money than brains, and is willing to part with said money and any semblance of common sense.

 

I just do not see a problem. You pays your money, you takes your pick. After that, If it goes up, you feel good. If it goes down, you feel bad.

I like C3's and the Ferrari Maranello too but I only can afford a C3.

-Mark.

 

Problem is, your money is buying proportionately less each year (and with the sale of every over-priced collector car). Those enthusiasts on a limited budget are being priced out of the hobby. Now, take my previous example of the '70 Challenger. It's price went up 52% in less than 2 years, and probably at least that much again in the subsequent 2 years. Is your salary (or hourly wage) increasing at that rate? Mine isn't !! Most people are lucky to see a 3-5% annual increase in wage. Mark, you'd like to have a Ferrari, but you can only afford a C3. Well, you had better keep that C3, because if things continue this way, it won't be long before you will only be able to afford a Pinto. You don't agree?

 

Yuppie driving loafers. What you wear when cruising the 7-Series to Nantucket for the weekend.

D. Ocean
Miami, FLA

 

In high school (the mid-70's) I was driving a '56 Bel-Air w/ fuel
injection that I bought off a friend who wasn't mechanically inclined
for $300.00. I bought my '69 vert last year from a friend who also isn't
mechanically inclined for $3000.00, and plenty of cheap running muscle
cars in between. My point is if you wait for it the right deal will come
along. If some yuppie or whatever they call the most recent "more
money than brains" idiot and pays me $$$$$ for my vert I'll stick it to
them just like "good ol'" Mr. Jackson does, I don't feel guilty either. I
have the car of my dreams now, but, I can always restore another one.

 

According to Marx, under communism everyone would get to drive a C3.

STW! Platato

 

Lol....thx D.

What Kevin wears when he cruises the C3 to the AutoZone for some oil and a filter......on the weekend:

http://community.webshots.com/script...ecurity=SZxUzf

Kevin

 

All the above is true to some extent. Money investing can take many forms, stocks, bonds, protected interest earning accounts, gold bars, diamonds, and anything else that could go up in price in the future(due to availabilty or demand). With the recent stock plunge, people are looking for more stable bets with smaller risks. Some now think it's muscle cars and are buying them. The trends usually correct themselves, as pointed out above. I saw a similar small scale version while collecting Hot Wheels in the 90s. As the 30th anniversary (1998) got closer, more and more people started collecting and prices started to go way up. I would go to a garage sale amd ask about old HW cars and be told, "yes, we have some, but they are valuable." They wouldn't sell and now cars that were bringing $20+ apiece are not selling for $2. So hold what you got and shop wisely and we shall prevail.

 

All good points so far but I'll add my $.02. I think that we're endangering the hobby in another way. There are very few of the younger generation becoming interested in these cars because of their rarity and pricing structure. When was the last time you saw an early Nova for a reasonable price? Or how about a Chevelle, even a non SS? We wonder why the youngsters go for the Hondas and Nissans when the truth is they are the only affordable entry level cars out there. To teenagers they are the 57 Chevy of their day. When the current crop of cars are either used up or priced so high they are unattainable the hobby will shrink. I can already see the day when musclecars will go the way of the Hot Rods and become kit cars with repro fiberglas bodies and scratch built chassis. In fact there are already a few companies going in this direction. I like vettes and musclecars and hot rods but a good hot rod (34 3 window) costs at least $30k for a minimal effort and upwards of $80k for a tricked out ride, often much more. This is a great hobby but I don't think any sane person would think of it as a low risk investment. Like I said, just my $.02. Remember this when you see a beat up honda with a fart pipe. It might be the kids only alternative.

 

These too...