Although sometimes I feel old and my kids make fun of my gray hair, I feel the younger folks are building A GREAT FUTURE,AND A GREAT HOBBY IN THE RICER MARKET. Geeese guys, most of these fine young men are just as passionate as we were (as young men) and are learning to get their hands just as dirty as we did.

I for one think the hobby of car modification/collecting IS IN GOOD AND CAPABLE HANDS.

I guess I could tell you the story of my father who purchased a Model a ford for 27 dollars in WWII, and how he thought the WORLD HAD GONE CRAZY when I sold a frame off restore OF A 1930 Ford Tudor Coupe I did in 1980 for 15,000 dollars, well the moral to the story is the SKY is not falling, maybe it's just your view that getting stuck in the past!!!!!!

Sorry thats a little more than my usual .02 worth

 

I think there were some pretty bad investments made on Barrett-Jackson last weekend. I just don't believe some of those prices are going to hold, I think within 2-3 years most of those cars will be worth what they were 2-3 years ago...I could be wrong...have been before....but that's my bet.

 

I know the price of old muscle cars is going up as my Camaro's value has skyrocketed, BUT I paid close to TODAYS market value for my '80 C3 back about 15 years ago. The value was DECREASING during most of that time and has only more recently started to increase. It was a fair price at that time and it is still a fair price now because the market says so. Was it a good "investment"? Doubtful when you take into account the economic value of time and money not to mention the cost of labor, parts and upkeep. Was it a good use of disposable income - HECK YES!, so you could say I am pleased with my purchase and enjoy the ownership experience. The prices paid at BJ auction do not represent the reality of the collector car market. Why worry about the guys with too much money and how they spend it? Lets not confuse "jelousy" with "what is bad for our hobby".

Take a look at ebay if you need a reality check. The ebay marketplace is much more efficient than the circus show at B-J. The demographics of the "hobby" may change over time but that does not mean much to me personaly. I have owned my cars for a LONG time. I keep them because I still like them rather than trade a lot. If better heeled "hobbyists" start buying up the available merchandise, the value of my "investment" goes up BUT I would have to sell my "investment" in order to capture that value so that just ain't happening. I'm still the same guy with the same car and I still drive it just like I did before but now I get thumbs up from Yuppies instead of honest genuine gear heads. OH WELL.

We should be thankful that we C3 owning enthusiasts are ahead of the yuppie awareness curve. If we happen to get a lot of money when we sell our cars then GREAT! but really guys, how many of us actualy make money when we sell our Vettes taking into account what we spend on our cars? Not too many. Even if we take and sell them at B-J, we probably will still be in the red. Are they too cheap or are they too expensive?

-Mark.

 

Good point VetteFixr. I hadn't thought of that angle.

Kevin

 

Eeeeuuuu.. without socks too.

 

Good thing no one has "discovered" our C3 Corvettes yet! I agree that most of these "high buck" people are not my "type" of car guy. I think everything adjusts over time, and some of this "hysteria" is going to wane in future years. I sold my 69 RS 302 Z/28 4 years ago for $22.5K (with JL-8 disc brakes and X-ram.) I bought my 72 LT-1 in 1994 for $10.5K and wouldn't sell it for $30K right now, I enjoy the car too much and spent 2+ years of my life restoring the motor/drivetrain. I bought my Z/28 in 1978 for $3500 and wouldn't buy it back if I had to sell my LT-1 in order to own it (I would buy a C6 Z06 Vette instead! for about the same money.)

 

Thats what the Walmart comercial says. But its just a fluff job like Barrett Jackson...They don't call it the million dollar BJ for nothing. And believe me with the kind of seed money theyv got it will just grow.

 

Mark, you will just have to trust me on this one, jealousy has no part in what I am saying. I am fortunate to be able to afford most any muscle/sports car I may want to buy. I simply refuse to over-spend because some idiot classic car "salesman" feels he has to make a $10k profit on every car in his inventory, or because Mr. Jackson has to make the next payments on all of his high-dollar museum pieces, or because some OPEC oil millionaire is profiting so richly from my paying $2/gal. at the gas pump to keep my poor old C3 going.

IMHO, these cars are not worth this kind of money, and there will be a correction, just as there was in the early 90's. So beware. And remember, hot-rodding was started by enthusiasts...people who loved their cars and the hobby...not these "investors" and "profiteers". I just hope, for those who would still like to choose this as a hobby...like my 17yo son...that there are decent cars still available at decent prices in the future. Ok...ok...enough already!

Kevin

 

kcmk:

I agree with your first post.

I remember the musclecar market rising to extremes from 1988 thru 1990 and in 1991 the prices started to decline onward. During that first period of high prices for cars, I was trying to find a '71 LS-6 Corvette, because the '68,'69 L-88's were hovering around 150K to 200K, while LS-6's were lagging behind at 75K to 110K.

Well I did wait and wait and wait, then when the stock market started to decline early in 2000, I thought, if this keeps up, musclecars will again start to climb. Well, we all know the rest of this story. In December 2000 I went out on a limb and bought a low mileage original, fully documented with all factory paperwork, 1971 LS-6 coupe with M22, 3:70 ratio car for 45K. After BJ, and seeing the prices for cars, there is no way I would let this car go for less than 100K. Would I buy this car at that price, I could afford to, but I would have to think about it pretty hard.

I too could afford to buy pretty much any musclecar today, exception would be the E body hemi ragtop, I have been wanting a '67 Shelby GT 500 fastback for a very long time. I kept watching them rise in value, thinking that 40K to 50K was a bit much, well now LOOK! I just can't believe these prices!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe what you are saying here is the 'wealthy investor' has no right to dabble in such a purists hobby, and how dare they hoard these cars from the marketplace to purposefully drive up their prices?

Please tell me you really don't feel this way. BJ is a marketplace where individuals that have done well in their lives go and spend money on (most of the time) perfectly restored muscle cars of the era they grew up in. Who the hell one of us have the right or the audacity to criticize them. What? do they make too much money... do we have a right to say they can't build that million dollar house b/c it's just driving the real estate market out of whack. And don't sit here and say that car isn't worth that price. BullllShhhttt. Not to you and maybe not to me...a car is worth whatever price the buyer is willing to pay for it.

And believe you me...if I was a wealthy individual who was spending 1% of their net worth at BJ, I'd be elbows and arsholes right up their in the mix with them bidding whatever the hell I wanted to spend just to have a beautiful muscle car sitting out back in my million dollar personal car museum built to hoard all of my muscle cars from the lowly bottom draggers of the muscle car market.

One more thing...like Mark Twain said about real estate years ago and muscle cars today...

'Buy more, cause they ain't makin any more of it.'

 

I'm 45 so I guess I am at the upper end of the target population! I also live in St. Louis (and will return there this summer from europe) where there are a couple of muscle car dealers with high prices. I can't believe that all the Novas and Camaros are worth so much. Back in the day when I was a kid the dream Chevy was a Corvette. We teenagers settled for used Novas and Camaros. In 1978 I bought a nice used 1969 Nova SS with a 350/300 and 4-spd for $1600. I sold it a few years later for $3,000. I don't even want to guess what it is worth now... With the high prices on even entry-level muscle cars, getting the vintage Corvette right at the start makes more sense to me. I guess I echo other posts in saying that half the joy for me is working on the car and sorting out all the "issues." If I am brutally honest with myself in reviewing the many cars I have bought and sold, once I get them sorted out, I'm ready to sell and acquire the next challenge. I like to think that the current car (see sig below) will be a keeper!

 

it's happening with a lot of things these days, ever take a look at how much vintage guitars and amps have shot up over the past few years. I sold my '69 Les Paul Std for $3750 this summer where 3 years ago I was told that getting $600 for it would be good. Antiques Roadshow is another example, will it come crashing down again - probably as these things are cyclical but since I am not buying it is a lot of fun to watch others spend their $, sort of like being an arm chair QB. Now when will K cars start showing up at B-J's.

 

Lol...I can just see Mr. Jackson now...doing one of his "halftime" evaluation segments on a Plymouth Volare!

Kevin

 

I've got a plymouth reliant waiting in the back yard and it's the first model year with fuel injection. I could probably retire when that sells !

 

Well Geez--maybe we'all should just sell these "bucket of bolts" and start colllecting Cabbage Patch dolls. Then I could come on the Cabbage Forum and post "Who makes the best glass eyes?"

SEMPER FI--1970 Dave

 

You know, I was watching a show about maggots the other day and how they still use them to clean real bad puncture wounds.

I thought I was feeling ill watching maggots eat dead flesh, but those "Tods" almost made me Ralph all over my boots.

 

No, I am not saying that they do not have a "right" to. I explicitly said that I felt their practice is not good for the hobby.

I absolutely do feel that it is bad for the hobby, for the enthusiast, and (as another poster pointed out) for those who may wish to enter this hobby for the first time.

Again, I was not speaking of "rights". I was speaking of the effects it has.

This is a true statement, and that was only my opinion. However, coming from someone who seems to preach about rights, I would think you would appreciate my right to voice my opinion?

Go for it. Just please don't whine when the bottom drops out, or you want that next car and can't afford it, or your son wants one and can't afford it either, or you have to spend exorbitant prices for ill-fitting parts, etc. And btw, and again it's only my opinion, you could stand to temper your language a little.

Was Mr. Clemens speaking specifically of Corvettes, or just muscle cars in general?