Advise on Diff. Side Yokes Please
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
Advise on Diff. Side Yokes Please
I have some significant amount of in-n-out movement on left differential yoke. I put new yokes in not that long ago and the cross shaft retaining the spider gears looked good. Is the excessive play form the clutch pack or spider gears? Where can I get the shims to remove this play or should I replace the clutches? I remember a thread about this not that long ago but I can't find it.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks,
Jim
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Jim,
You can get clutches from any GM dealer. I think they may have the shims as well but if they don't a diff shop should.
You can get clutches from any GM dealer. I think they may have the shims as well but if they don't a diff shop should.
I was wondering how to know if it's the clutch packs, the way the replacment axle snap ring grooves were machined or worn spider gears. I don't know which area to correct, all I do know is that the axles aren't worn down on the ends and the cross shaft was not worn. There is approx. 1/2" of in-n-out movement on the drivers side. How much movement should there be?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Jim,
You can get clutches from any GM dealer. I think they may have the shims as well but if they don't a diff shop should.
You can get clutches from any GM dealer. I think they may have the shims as well but if they don't a diff shop should.
But yes tightening up the clutch pack as well as the spider gears can quickly take .050 out of the yoke end play.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
There is approx. 1/2" of in-n-out movement on the drivers side. How much movement should there be?
No way you can get 1/2 inch of play from a yoke unless the pin is gone or no clip is in place. The clip is only about .190 from the end to begin with.
No way you can get 1/2 inch of play from a yoke unless the pin is gone or no clip is in place. The clip is only about .190 from the end to begin with.
7th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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From: Niagara Falls New York
I just did this job and I had .04" play on each side yoke. My yokes and pin were not worn. I found my clutches were worn. But its hard to understand where you are getting .50" play unless a previous owner left out the clutch shims and several plutch disks. The spider gears will not effect this side play. I ordered a clutch pack with a full set of shims for about $85. from Tom's differentials(tomsdifferentials.com).
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
No way you can get 1/2 inch of play from a yoke unless the pin is gone or no clip is in place. The clip is only about .190 from the end to begin with.
7th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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From: Niagara Falls New York
I got mine to about .008" using the shims from Tom's. Any tighter and the spiders gears started binding. As to how much you should have, I've never found a answer to that. I've searched numerous forum threads and it seems about .05" - .06" is where you should be concerned. You can measure end play without removing the diff. Disconnect the 1/2 shafts at the diff then use a dial indicator with a magnetic base.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 52
From: Florida
thanks for the help guys
I know I could measure the play while diff. in the car but something is wrong so I might as well put it apart and find the problem. I just wasn't sure which to blame the problem on since the spider gears looked good, the posi worked good and the yokes were new.
I know I could measure the play while diff. in the car but something is wrong so I might as well put it apart and find the problem. I just wasn't sure which to blame the problem on since the spider gears looked good, the posi worked good and the yokes were new.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by fmann87
I just did this job and I had .04" play on each side yoke. My yokes and pin were not worn. I found my clutches were worn. But its hard to understand where you are getting .50" play unless a previous owner left out the clutch shims and several plutch disks. The spider gears will not effect this side play. I ordered a clutch pack with a full set of shims for about $85. from Tom's differentials(tomsdifferentials.com).
Spider gear clearance definitely affects side play of the yokes. If the clutch pack is warren and the side gear shim is too small the clutch pack can compress allowing the yoke with it's retainly clip to pull out more towards the outside of the car.
If the clutch pack is tight it also takes clearance out of the spider gears causing less backlash in the spider gears and at the same time reducing yoke free play.
I learned alot in the last month from Gary and by doing the job and one thing I really learned that spider gear backlash is important to yoke clearance. I play with a rearend over a couple of weeks doing and understanding why/how it worked.
Spider gear clearance is important and something that I overlooked all the years of building rearends.
It took Gary and carguy4sure to point this out to me and teach me what is important.
Don't overlook the spider gears.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
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From: Florida
Norval, can you recommend the spider gear backlash measurement and the side yoke tolerance I should aim for? I put the yokes in at the same time I put a new ring and pinion in and I inspected the cross shaft and saw no wear. My guesstimate of 1/2" was probably wrong, 1/4" is probably closer.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
I would shim each side gear/clutch pack seperately so when a chissel is put between the axle gear and the pin the spider gears are just about binding, not quit but close,. Do one side seperate then the other side . For final assembly assemble both sides. The spider gears with the chissel compressing the clutch pack should barely move, a couple of thousand backlash.
The yoke end play in below .010 maximum.
It works guys if the axle gears are shimmed right
Gary knows more about this then anyone else. Well not anyone but he is very very knowledgable on this subject.
The yoke end play in below .010 maximum.
It works guys if the axle gears are shimmed right
Gary knows more about this then anyone else. Well not anyone but he is very very knowledgable on this subject.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Plano TX
Spider gear play should be approx 0.002". This is hard to measure but if you set it up so that you can just barely feel the play you're at 0.002.
Each side is set up independently. Then you should be able to just drop the pinion shaft in with no effort. If it is hard to insert one side is off and you need to reshim.
Once this is done the yoke end play ends up in the 0.005-0.010 range (with new yokes, of course).
Each side is set up independently. Then you should be able to just drop the pinion shaft in with no effort. If it is hard to insert one side is off and you need to reshim.
Once this is done the yoke end play ends up in the 0.005-0.010 range (with new yokes, of course).
7th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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From: Niagara Falls New York
Norval, I agree that spider gear tolerance will effect yoke side play when setting up the diff. In his initial post he talked about spider gear wear. The spider gears wearing would not cause excessive yoke play. Thats why I said that his spider gears have nothing to do with his excessive play. Maybe I should have said his spider gears did not cause his excessive play. I've read many of your threads and appreciate your advice. Thanks, Frank
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by fmann87
Norval, I agree that spider gear tolerance will effect yoke side play when setting up the diff. In his initial post he talked about spider gear wear. The spider gears wearing would not cause excessive yoke play. Thats why I said that his spider gears have nothing to do with his excessive play. Maybe I should have said his spider gears did not cause his excessive play. I've read many of your threads and appreciate your advice. Thanks, Frank
Zwede made a good point. Set up tight the pin still falls right into place with little effort. Amazing that after all the trying to compress the clutch pack and the shimming the pin just slides in.
He is also right if the pin is hard to install it is because one side is off.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,431
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From: Florida
UPDATE: Pulled the rearend out this weekend
Well, I guess I really overestimated the axle play :o it looked like a lot more that it was. 0.059 rt and 0.048 lt. Still too much but not the 0.50 I originally thought guessed. I also found that the cross shaft is worn out the carrier pretty badly. I have to put another carrier in so I guess I'll be starting from scratch on setting all the tolerances. I'm going to contact Gary (gtr1999) to see where to get a carrier, clutches, cross shaft and retaining bolt for cross shaft. I also found that one of my outboard ujoints is binding a little bit. The spicers I installed should not be failing this soon so I think the ujoint housing needs replacement. Anyone know where I can get complete driveshafts with solid ujoints already installed? Having them pressed in without a fixture is apparently not working.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks,
Jim
