TedH

Looks like they were wanting to ensure you had covered those bases. They are a good lot at Van Steel. I don't think he was trying to ruffle your feathers. I know Dan and he is a straight shooter.

Twin_Turbo

Wow...you sure went off like a firecraker there. If that's the way you rebuild a very critical component of the car (rear beraings) then don't be surprised if you develop either a brake problem (pumping air), a bearing problem or worse (go look up some pics of rear hubs that have caught on fire because of improper tolerances, improper lubrication and tremendous heat buildup). If you don't know how to do it properly, then have it done. these things are not something to gamble with, especially when doing over a 100mhp. How was that .002 set? With dry bearings? Rollers settled, torqued to proper specs??? Dan was just trying to be helpful IMO, your reply is way out of line and downright rude.

Steve's74

I agree. There was no reason for the attack on Dan. Everyone has their limitations, both in skill and time. Some people are perfectly comfortable with rebuilding a Vette's rear wheel bearings, and some aren't. To chew Dan out for asking those questions was uncalled for, in my opinion. Make no mistake about it, the quality of Van Steel's work is unquestionable. Is it necessary to inspect every single bearing to the extent that they do? Is it necessary to verify the straightness of the trailing arm? Is it necessary to use a two stage epoxy paint? Possibly not, but some people certainly sleep better knowing that Dan's people are providing this level of quality. The nice thing about this hobby is that everyone has the right to choose what level of self input they put into their car.

And just so everyone know's where I'm coming from, I'm about ready to begin the process of rebuilding my rear wheel bearings and trailing arms myself. But I wouldn't hesitate a minute to refer someone to Dan's place.

Steve

Van Steel

Relax. I was just asking you questions. I wasn't trying to jump all over your back. Yes you did it for $90 but was it the right the way? I didn't know autozone lent out micrometers and dial indicators. All you said was that the machine shop pressed off your bearings. Did you only do 1 side for $90 or both for $90?

Since you jumped all over me and don't give a crap if your parts are bent or heck not even there, people will see the difference in your parts and mine. Mine actually function and look good and come with a warranty. Oh and FYI, I ship parts for free to forum members so get your facts straight before you go off the deep end on someone.

steves_77vette

Alright, let's settle down, myself included. The conversation was supposed to be civil. I'm just amused by some responses. Heck turtle if you want to laugh or cry at my restoration you can do so real time with the blog I'm keeping here:

http://77vette.blogspot.com/

BTW, my target for completing it and have it on the road, that means paint and all, is no later than July......not 10 years later. Started the project in January and yes, doing this on the weekends and evenings ONLY with a few days off from work now and then. And I'm not fibbing anyone either about who I am, not a mechanic, and yes, this is my first restoration. The only things I'm sending out to have done are the t-arms and the machining of the motor. The rest I'm doing including the paint at the end and that means a motor, diff and tranny rebuild too (which I will do myself), a complete drive train overhaul. 'Cause when I start throwing 350hp down the shaft I don't want anything melting.

For me personally, I've discovered what I thought would be the case with restorations, take the little extra time up front to document and stay organized and it goes pretty smoothly minus the crazy things like rust welded bolts in bushings.

turtlevette

TT, since your a buddy i'll pick on you

I still maintain that the rear bearings are no more critical than the front. As you probably know i slip fit both bearings on my car and left the spacer out, creating a setup that is just like the front. The clearance is set by hand torqueing the nut which is the same way the front is done. Its an experiment but i've racked up quite a few miles now probably 20k even trailering a boat bigger than my car for 1200 miles.

There is no doubt Van Steel is the best but how many people do we discourage on this issue who might not have the money. How many people do we discourage from doing other work to their car, painting ect. A lot of C3s are sitting and rotting because of these issues, they need bearings, brakes, engine, tranny, u-joints, paint, everything. If you had to get the whole thing done professionally you might as well just buy a new car. I think we have all learned when you have a vette the cost of work is always more anyway.

TedH

On my L48 over the past 8 years, I've done alot of the grunt work to remove/install parts.

Those areas I've left to the engineers:
-block machining
-Bend/weld/install of aluminized exhaust pipes and mufflers.
-Transmission kit from BTO (700R4)
- Carb rebuild (Lars)
- Distrib Recurve (Local tuner with dyno)
- rear wheel bearing rebuild and t-arm bushing install (Van Steel)
- Caliper rebuild - stainless inserts (VB&P)
- many misc other rebuilt/reman parts - purchased from many vendors and installed by me.
- paint and body

Some help I had in my garage:
Engine rebuild (neighbor-retired mechanic)
Front suspension refresh (same neighbor)

I've tried to keep the professional labor costs to a minimum. I'm pretty much a 'wrencher'; I can follow the directions as long as they don't require complex dials, gauges, machines and such. I have my standard and metric upright tool boxes sitting against the wall, my 4 jack stands, large-handle 3-ton jack, smaller 2 ton jack, and misc other 'tools' scattered on shelves. I figure I've still saved nearly $10K in labor on the L48 essentially performing the bulk of the 'removal/install' labor. I've uttered my share of curses, cleaned my share of grease from under my finger nails and such. I'll never have the encyclopedic knowledge that some of the famous resto shops or vendors may have but I have 'gained an appreciation' that only comes from this type of experience in our hobby.

Would I do any of it differently (do more or less myself)? Probably not.

turtlevette

I already did. I think its cool you are dedicating the restoration to the previous owner who is dieing of cancer and the car will live on. Go for it. We'll help you all we can here.

GATOR454

I'm on a budget, so I did mine myself. The $300 diference between doing it myself and sending it off went to something else I needed. I also got several tools and the knowledge of how the rear goes together. Most of the past discussions about the rear bearings made it out to be a lot harder and more mysterious than it really was.

The tools I needed other than the tools I had for general auto mechanics cost @ $180 w/shipping

tools that I used to disassemble.
spindle knocker - to remove the spindle from the carrier - $12: (bidquest)
BFH (Big F'n Hammer) - to hit the knocker with - $9: (harbor freight)
Bearing Separator- to remove the outer bearing from the spindle - $13: (harbor freight)

tools used to set up the new bearings:
Spindle setup tool - worth it's weight in gold - $40: (bidquest)
Dial indicator - to check end play - $10: (harbor freight)
Magnetic Base - to support Dial Indicator (the fine adjustment model comes in handy) - $18: (harbor freight)
Dial Caliper - to measure shims - $20: (harbor freight)

Once the end play is dialed in:
Bearing Packer - (not necessarily needed but helpful) - $4: (harbor freight)

Spindle install tool - $35: (bidquest)

I think that totals $161 in special tools, or $152 if you already have a big f'n hammer

I spent @ $90 for Timken bearings, seals and races at the Autozone

I reused the bearing shims and filed them down until I got the proper end play.

Then @ $70 for new bushings, bolts and T/A shims.

Grand total minus paint for the T/A = $321

You could also make it a little cheaper by getting the loaner tools from "Fast Corvette", which would make the total @ $274 (I wanted the tools in case I needed to do the bearings on my nephews '80 so I got them from bidquest)
http://www.fastcorvet.com/SpindlesParkingBrakes.htm

"It wasn't rocket science"

David

GTR1999

Damm, guys you're are getting nasty

A couple of things of interest here.

First, I do these and no I don't think they're too bad a job. For someone who has not worked with bearings,machine-tools, or measuring equipment they could pose a problem. Not all of them come apart too easily either, I might add.

For cost
All anyone has to do is look in any vette catalog to get the high price for bearings, a local bearing supplier can get them or even have them in stock for about $25 per set. NAPA sells CR seals which are pretty good,if not better, then the ones I've bought from some vette suppliers. You can get by if you have a local shop that can do the work without wrecking the parts for under $90 per side using Timken bearings.I haven;t heard that Timken is made in Japan,but I'll use Japanese bearings over Chinese anyday.The last I heard Timken was still a USA company that just purchased Torrington. Anyway,this doesn't include the other things you're going to need,that I figure into a job: backing plate,PB parts & shoes, bushings, POR15 those parts add up-again look in anyones catalog they're a common item. Go to Carlisle and you find a dozen or more guys selling parts and assemblies.

Now for the shops.
Van Steel, Bairs, Ikerds,etc all do very good work. They have the knowledge,tools,parts and are set up to turn them over very quickly. If you can't do it or just don't want to, they'll do the job right. You have to expect they're going to cost more,they are running a business with overhead,labor,taxes,insurance it all adds to the equation. What you get is a part to bolt in your car and go,that's worth a lot. I wouldn't do them for less then $100 labor each, it's just not worth it. Would you do whatever you do for less?

So think about what you're saying before posting. Yes, if you can do it yourself you'll save hundreds but I don't think the vendors are overcharging for their services either. Enjoy your cars before they're too expensive to drive

Gary

Twin_Turbo

Okay bud , just because the fronts look easy it doesn't mean they are, it also doesn't mean that the torque to spec, back off and hand tighten method is a particulary good method to do it, there are way better methods out there, requiring precision shimmin to set close tolerances, if you look into tolerances kept by other manufacturers (for instance Merceds & BMW) you will find that theirs are a lot tighter than what is commonly accepted for our cars, in other words you can do a lot better job than what's recommended in manuals. I do not understand how people can set up their bearings without precision equipment, the only setup suitable for the bolt off bolt on use hammer when thigns are stuck method are the sealed rear bearing units used on C4s and later cars, although you can buy an entire bearing carrier it is possible to press in some new ones..that's the only way you could do it.

Steve's74

Well said Gary. There was definitely some over reaction in this thread. You've said what I was trying to say and perhaps didn't do well.

Steve

turtlevette

In that case TT, then the front bearings are a poor design. Your or Norval need to design us a better setup that uses precision shims.

Twin_Turbo

There's nothing wrong with the design, if you can count you can set them up correctly. Someone wrote a very good dwrite up on how to do it, ti all depends on thread pitch, number of slots in the castle nut and the amount of slack you want. It's not hard...well eyah, harden than torque back off and finger tighten but the effort put into it will really pay off.

turtlevette

Cool,

that supports my case to set the back up the same way. Using valve shims behind the nut allows you to get it dialed in pretty good.

Twin_Turbo

before going into a huge debate about these bearings, slip fitting and what not..let's agree to disagree LOL...well maybe it boils down to me not having the brick nads you have to actually drive with something like that (not that I have anythingnear something that can be driven )

turtlevette

damn,

what good is a forum unless we can discuss these things. I have no problem disagreeing on a few things. It doesn't mean i don't respect your technical knowledge which is in my opinion greatly superior to mine. The whole point is that i wan't to learn form guys like you and see if you can talk me out of doing these science projects. If you think this discussion is a wast of time thats ok, I understand.

One thing that does occur to me is that with my method, the flange will put more pressure on the inner bearing on the (EDIT inboard )outboard wheel in a turn causing the clearance to go to zero and placing an undetermined amount of preload on the bearing setup which could cause premature wear. Do you agree with this assesment?

Twin_Turbo

Well...Why not read the writeup? I'm sure Norval still has it somewhere, I can't remember who rote it but it was really good, then decide if it's for you or not

As for the rear slip fit bearings, the major drawback I see is ruining the spindle..or better said, there's no way back. I actually slip fit some bearings w/ a cylinder hone so i could easily install them on the spindle so I could mockup the hub w/ spindle for the rear suspension stuff I'm building.

I'm not sure what method you're talking about with respect to the loading forces. You are right that the forces on the inner and outer bearing change when cornering or going in a straight line, same way they change when changing the wheel offset.

MsVetteMan

First let me apologize for overreacting a bit...

Second, let me clear up this loaner tool thing at autozone. If you walk in and ask if they have loaner tools they will say no. Now the one I dealt with here locally basically sells them to you at a used tool price (they are used), and when you bring them back, they give you credit. So in reality what you are doing is putting a deposit down for the value of the tools.

All Autozones may not do this, but this on definitely did.

As far as the cost of the parts, I'm going to double check what I spent, but I don't believe it was over 30 bucks for bearings, races, and seals. (I didn't buy a shim kit).

Anyway, point is, it's a considerable savings, if you have the tools available, and depending on how you go about installing the new bearings.

Bearing play is critical, and if set correctly, will last alot longer. I was fortunate enough to hook up with a guy who could, and did, set the end play when he set the bearings.

Sorry for the missunderstanding, but alot of this work can be done, if you are willing to learn a little to do it "correctly", or else you will be doing it again real soon.

turtlevette

How long do you want me to think?

Lets just clarify. Nobody is saying the venders are overcharging, just that this work is very expensive and is one area where you can save some green for other projects.

I had to dig this SOB off of page 2.

When are we going to get our tech section?