Transplanting an ABS system...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,435
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From: largo florida
Transplanting an ABS system...
How difficult/feasible would it be to transplant the 98-02 fbody ABS system into our cars? The vette would already have the fbody pcm for the ls1.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,508
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From: Wisconsin
You'd need the ABS speed sensors in the hubs. There is no point. ABS is for those unable to drive. It is just unnessary weight and another thing to break. These are Corvettes... the last thing they need is another thing to break.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27
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Originally Posted by Schmucker
You'd need the ABS speed sensors in the hubs. There is no point. ABS is for those unable to drive. It is just unnessary weight and another thing to break. These are Corvettes... the last thing they need is another thing to break.
I agree with shmucker,
Why ?
1- alot of work to install
2- the cost $ $ $ $
3- you are going to pull down the value of the car, more than not
4- a computer does not know whats out in front of you , you my need them brakes locked up for a second or two to avoid something in front of you.
The corvette is a performance machine , I can stop alot sooner without abs than with it , infact I pull the fuse out on my cars and trucks that do have it, you have alot more stopping power without it if you know when to brake and when not to, to control the direction and stopping ability of your car .
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,696
Likes: 329
From: Scottsdale Arizona
I think that a properly set up ABS system would marginally improve the C3 braking, especially on wet pavement
BUT
The setup isn't easy and if you make ANY mistakes, the system would either be useless (likely) or extremely dangerous (possible).
No question but that it would add weight.
You'd have to completely change the MC, lines and fluid distribution.
In the end, it would be easier and a lot cheaper to buy yourself a later C4 for driving in the rain.
My .02
BUT
The setup isn't easy and if you make ANY mistakes, the system would either be useless (likely) or extremely dangerous (possible).
No question but that it would add weight.
You'd have to completely change the MC, lines and fluid distribution.
In the end, it would be easier and a lot cheaper to buy yourself a later C4 for driving in the rain.
My .02
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,000
Likes: 22
From: Boulder Creek California
There is no point. ABS is for those unable to drive.
ABS will not stop you as fast as properly executed threshhold braking. Pumping the brakes is for those who can't drive AND don't have ABS! Do yourself a favor and get some experience braking at the limit in various conditions, don't hack up the Vette.
-Chris
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
The nay sayers haven't a clue what they are talking about. No one can out think a computer when it comes to speed and precision. If you think you can you're an idiot.
I did a lot of research on ABS and traction controll system about a year ago. It's really not that hard to plumb in a wire up.
I polled a bunch of C4, C5 and Porshe guys. It almost always came out the same way. They all hate it, ABS, ASR, traction control sucks...
except for that time in the rain, or another time on dry pavement when that old lady pulled out in front of them in her 72 Eldorado, would have been toast if I didn't have ABS...
Oh yea and my 1/4 mile time are better with the traction controll ON ( except for the burnout ).
In Short modern 4 wheel ABS with traction control and ASR make a modern car modern. It tames the wild moments. Even die hard racers leave the ABS on cause they know that if they feel it come on they're pushing too hard.
So like I said, bolting it on wouldn't be that hard, it's just a box with brake lines and sensors.
The problem is that you have to program the unit and develop the parameters to program into the unit. A C3 will NOT use the same parameter set as a C4! For that you need Bosh's help. I doubt they'd be interested in doing 1 unit, or even 10.
That my friends is why I gave up.
I did a lot of research on ABS and traction controll system about a year ago. It's really not that hard to plumb in a wire up.
I polled a bunch of C4, C5 and Porshe guys. It almost always came out the same way. They all hate it, ABS, ASR, traction control sucks...
except for that time in the rain, or another time on dry pavement when that old lady pulled out in front of them in her 72 Eldorado, would have been toast if I didn't have ABS...
Oh yea and my 1/4 mile time are better with the traction controll ON ( except for the burnout ).
In Short modern 4 wheel ABS with traction control and ASR make a modern car modern. It tames the wild moments. Even die hard racers leave the ABS on cause they know that if they feel it come on they're pushing too hard.
So like I said, bolting it on wouldn't be that hard, it's just a box with brake lines and sensors.
The problem is that you have to program the unit and develop the parameters to program into the unit. A C3 will NOT use the same parameter set as a C4! For that you need Bosh's help. I doubt they'd be interested in doing 1 unit, or even 10.
That my friends is why I gave up.
Last edited by 427V8; Mar 17, 2005 at 08:44 PM.
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
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From: Twin Cities Minnesota
Originally Posted by LiveandLetDrive
ABS will not stop you as fast as properly executed threshhold braking. Pumping the brakes is for those who can't drive AND don't have ABS! Do yourself a favor and get some experience braking at the limit in various conditions, don't hack up the Vette.
-Chris
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
I'd love to have an ABS system, fuel injection and air bags.....already added the rack and pinon and OD auto.... not sure the airbags and ABS is in the cards though....fuel injection though would be cool and is doable
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,456
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From: Coming home from Luckenbach Texas
ABS...you're joking, right? Take the car out on a rainy day and a quiet road and learn how to stop the car in crummy conditions. You'll find the C3 braking system very capable in the worst of weather! ABS would only f*%# it up.
I've got all the goodies: overdrive tranny, rack & pinion, perhaps even EFI one day. But ABS isn't anywhere on my list!
BTW: My daily driver has ABS. The wife's DD has ABS, traction control and god knows what else (it's a Mercedes). So I ain't blowing smoke here...
I've got all the goodies: overdrive tranny, rack & pinion, perhaps even EFI one day. But ABS isn't anywhere on my list!
BTW: My daily driver has ABS. The wife's DD has ABS, traction control and god knows what else (it's a Mercedes). So I ain't blowing smoke here...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 2
From: Eastern Connecticut
Originally Posted by 427V8
The nay sayers haven't a clue what they are talking about. No one can out think a computer when it comes to speed and precision. If you think you can you're an idiot.
Threshold braking works great if you have an adjustable bias valve and know how to set it for the conditions you are in that minute. Unfortunately rain, sand, leaves are not on race tracks, so the dry settings won't work every time.
If you read performance car reviews, they always leave the ABS on, it's the traction control, skid avoidance and other "aids" that they find difficult to adjust to.
And locking the brakes does not make you stop faster, except on gravel or snow where the wedge effect helps. Rolling friction is always greater than skidding friction.
But to get it dialed in would be a monumental task, and you'd have to do a lot of trial and error work. But nothing is impossible given enough time and money.
Joe
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 1
From: Beverly Massachusetts
i will have to agree with 427V8. i have a 2003 jette 1.8t and it has traction control and four wheel ABS and i can say that driving in the snow and on very rainy days taht both work awsome and probably saved me from sliding through an intersection in the snow and from locking up my brakes in the rain and and for those who say that they can stop quicker without ABS i will have to raise the 
flag on that one. im sorry but the ABS on my jetta can stop it on a dime and put my vettes brakes to shame. if thre was a way to put ABS on my 76 i would be all over it in a heart beat and traction control would be nice to have also. just my opinion
flag on that one. im sorry but the ABS on my jetta can stop it on a dime and put my vettes brakes to shame. if thre was a way to put ABS on my 76 i would be all over it in a heart beat and traction control would be nice to have also. just my opinion
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,435
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From: largo florida
Thank you 427v8 for your insight. Guys, here is my car currently along with its engine. The frame is going to be full welded, gusseted and autoX prepped. At this point, I could care less about the cars possible decrease in value because of adding ABS on. Our brakes are fine in the rain up until you need to make that unplanned panic stop and the brakes lock up. Things get ugly really quickly then. Like 427 said, the fbody and corvette ABS monitors each wheel and modulate then independately, it is quite sophisticated. I cant individually modulate each of the wheels by myself 
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,812
Likes: 4
From: Gig Harbor Wa
You can use the F-body stuff. You need to replace the entire brake system with an F-body system to get it to work properly. Master cylinder, booster, ABS controller, Traction controller, wheel speed sensors and you might as well do rotors and calipers while you are at it.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,638
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A quick lesson in Physics
Originally Posted by MELS 68 CONV.
I
4- a computer does not know whats out in front of you , you my need them brakes locked up for a second or two to avoid something in front of you.
.
4- a computer does not know whats out in front of you , you my need them brakes locked up for a second or two to avoid something in front of you.
.
- you need to train yourself to brake to the skidding point - then back off slightly. Doing Autocross is a grat way to learn this skill - so is going to any of the racing schools out there.
C arl "used to flatspot em" Johansson
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
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St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by 427V8
Oh and ask me about hitting the grass on turn 1 at 105mph, sure coulda use some ABS then!
The C5 guys talk about just standing on the brake in every turn and just let the computer slow the car. Whats to point of racing if you let the computer drive the car?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
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From: Living in the Hartland
Originally Posted by turtlevette
The C5 guys talk about just standing on the brake in every turn and just let the computer slow the car. Whats to point of racing if you let the computer drive the car?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
Originally Posted by lostpatrolman
ABS would make the car alot safer and easier to drive in the rain.
PEOPLE IN CARS WITH ANTILOCKS ARE AT GREATER RISK
It's an older statistic, but it was generated when half the cars came without ABS. You couldn't do the analysis as easily today. Most cars have ABS nowadays because it does help idiots steer during braking...