Electric Water Pumps Redux.....
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Dallas County Texas
Electric Water Pumps Redux.....
This was a topic here or over on CAC 10 days to two weeks back and I found some new stuff...
First this link:
http://meziere.com/2005_catalog/05.pdf
I just installed an Edelbrock Victor pump on my 413 (before it blew up again - same head gasket, probably a damaged head - trying a different shop this time before I give up throwing money at it and fixing it myself...)
Anyhow, I noticed this was the first time I could get a pump curve on mechanical pumps. The electric pumps always told you their flow rate in GPM, but not the mechanicals.
Well the Victor, which, BTW, outflowed the FlowKoolr enormously from how badly it would overdrive a waterneck mounted low pressure cap, had a flowchart on the side.
I saw in the various Jegs and Summit cats that, in addition to the common 35-37 GPM offerings, Meziere has been offering 55 GPM lately.
The standard wisdom for real vehicles (not short run drag cars) was: electric fans - good idea, electric water pump - bad idea. The flow rates were just not high enough at sustained higher rpm. They do flow more at idle than engine driven, but not as much as engine driven when engine speed is up.
I wondered if this situation was actually changing and if these new electric pumps would finally be enough flow to outflow or equally flow medium or higher end mechanicals.
It looks like they have.
Like electric fans of 20-25 years ago, which were fine for auxilliary use, or on baby ricer engines, but useless for main use on real engines, things improved. They got better and now are better than any mechanical fans. That evolution seems to be occuring with electric pumps now.
That link above and the nearby links (especially the notes section) of the Meziere catalog gives an interesting general background on cooling systems and even adressed some myths I KNEW I understood the correct answers to.
Anyhow, this is the flow rate from the back of the Victor box. Bear in mind these are from a graph and are approximations - also note they don't list the really key thing of low speed operation. My particular engine has rarely exceeded 6250. The graph was more or less linear, with a slight bulge at the 6k-6250 range.
RPM.........GPM..............RPM.......G PM
5250........39................6750...... .52
5500........42................7000...... .54
5750........44................7250...... .56
6000........45................7500...... .58
6250........48................7750...... .59
6500........49................8000...... .62
Notice this is all pretty much 7.5 GPM/K RPM. Currently I cruise at 4000-4500 (80+ish to 95ish), which means I am only flowing 30-33GPM during normal operation. A decent hard push or two for a few minutes of 5500-6000 and I'm only barely hitting 45 GPM, typically followed by a few minutes drop to 3250-3500 (around 70) to cool down, which is only 25 GPM or so. In stop and go or boulevard kind of traffic, where 1500-2500 is the norm, with punches to 4+ common, I am probably only flowing 15 GPM!
Assuming no one is lying (excessively) and the Victor doesn't get absurdly more efficient at much lower speeds means I would have literally TWICE the coolant flow under most extreme "normal" conditions, 75% more under normal conditions. Under my very worst overheat times I would have 350% of the coolant flow!
When you consider that pump cost $165ish and the 55GPM Meziere is $360ish, the upgrade cost may be worth it for something that can cool your engine after you turn it off and can run at full cooling at idle as well as saving considerable direct parasitic loss from the engine (even though you have to make this up from alternator energy.)
I think I'll be trying one of these silly things sooner or later. If I already had a Zirgo or SPAL full sized electric main fan set-up, instead of not having even installed my little cheapy auxilliary, I think that would be a lot sooner than later.
First this link:
http://meziere.com/2005_catalog/05.pdf
I just installed an Edelbrock Victor pump on my 413 (before it blew up again - same head gasket, probably a damaged head - trying a different shop this time before I give up throwing money at it and fixing it myself...)
Anyhow, I noticed this was the first time I could get a pump curve on mechanical pumps. The electric pumps always told you their flow rate in GPM, but not the mechanicals.
Well the Victor, which, BTW, outflowed the FlowKoolr enormously from how badly it would overdrive a waterneck mounted low pressure cap, had a flowchart on the side.
I saw in the various Jegs and Summit cats that, in addition to the common 35-37 GPM offerings, Meziere has been offering 55 GPM lately.
The standard wisdom for real vehicles (not short run drag cars) was: electric fans - good idea, electric water pump - bad idea. The flow rates were just not high enough at sustained higher rpm. They do flow more at idle than engine driven, but not as much as engine driven when engine speed is up.
I wondered if this situation was actually changing and if these new electric pumps would finally be enough flow to outflow or equally flow medium or higher end mechanicals.
It looks like they have.
Like electric fans of 20-25 years ago, which were fine for auxilliary use, or on baby ricer engines, but useless for main use on real engines, things improved. They got better and now are better than any mechanical fans. That evolution seems to be occuring with electric pumps now.
That link above and the nearby links (especially the notes section) of the Meziere catalog gives an interesting general background on cooling systems and even adressed some myths I KNEW I understood the correct answers to.
Anyhow, this is the flow rate from the back of the Victor box. Bear in mind these are from a graph and are approximations - also note they don't list the really key thing of low speed operation. My particular engine has rarely exceeded 6250. The graph was more or less linear, with a slight bulge at the 6k-6250 range.
RPM.........GPM..............RPM.......G PM
5250........39................6750...... .52
5500........42................7000...... .54
5750........44................7250...... .56
6000........45................7500...... .58
6250........48................7750...... .59
6500........49................8000...... .62
Notice this is all pretty much 7.5 GPM/K RPM. Currently I cruise at 4000-4500 (80+ish to 95ish), which means I am only flowing 30-33GPM during normal operation. A decent hard push or two for a few minutes of 5500-6000 and I'm only barely hitting 45 GPM, typically followed by a few minutes drop to 3250-3500 (around 70) to cool down, which is only 25 GPM or so. In stop and go or boulevard kind of traffic, where 1500-2500 is the norm, with punches to 4+ common, I am probably only flowing 15 GPM!
Assuming no one is lying (excessively) and the Victor doesn't get absurdly more efficient at much lower speeds means I would have literally TWICE the coolant flow under most extreme "normal" conditions, 75% more under normal conditions. Under my very worst overheat times I would have 350% of the coolant flow!
When you consider that pump cost $165ish and the 55GPM Meziere is $360ish, the upgrade cost may be worth it for something that can cool your engine after you turn it off and can run at full cooling at idle as well as saving considerable direct parasitic loss from the engine (even though you have to make this up from alternator energy.)
I think I'll be trying one of these silly things sooner or later. If I already had a Zirgo or SPAL full sized electric main fan set-up, instead of not having even installed my little cheapy auxilliary, I think that would be a lot sooner than later.
Last edited by WayneLBurnham; Apr 20, 2005 at 04:38 AM.
