What are the pros and cons of each? Which one has better performance? Ease of install? Power? ...etc...

Thanks!

 

I'm gonna go with the 200 simply because you dont have to modify the drive shaft.

 

I went for the 700r4 because of the lower first gear. Its great with a 3.55 rear gear. I cant argue which is a tougher transmission though. I guess it is all in how its prepared. The 700r4 is longer but you dont need to get a new yoke if your swapping out a th400. the 200r4 is easier to install since you can use the stock crossmember.

 

200R4:

Positive:

1) Eats up little horsepower (probably 15 - 25 HP less than a TH700R4)
2) Light (weights a lot less than a 700R4)
3) gearing (bigger first gear than TH350 and TH400). The TH700 has a bigger first gear, but therefore the spacing and RPM drop between gears is greater)
4) Can be built to withstand 800 HP
5) Same driveshaft length and mounting location as stock, bolt on swap
6) available lockup converter (non-lockup for racing)

Negative:

1) Strong built TH200R4's aint cheap
2) parts and accessories for that tranny are hard to find.. Not a common transmission.
3) bad design of the governor (only applies to automatic valvebody trannys). Spring can pop out during burnout when wheels appruptly stop..

TH700R4

Positive:
1) Big first gear (but bigger gear spacing - which shouldn't be an issue with a engine that has good torque)
2) can be built to hold up to 800+ HP
3) available lockup converter
4) common transmission and lots of parts available

Negative:
1) eats up a lot of HP
2) strong built TH700R4's ain't cheap
3) different mounting point (except for '82 Vette) and therefore a new crossmember or bracket is needed.
4) driveshaft needs to be shortened.

Those were the decision points for me to go with the TH200R4

 

Can't go wrong either way, OD is awesome. Everybody already summed it up. I went with the 700 after speaking to lots of friends and a respected tranny man. However, the 200 seems to be the best solution, and I may end up regretting my decision down the road.

 

If you aren't trying to squeeze out the last .1 at the track.. you'll be perfectly fine with the TH700R4.
Both are some fine trannys if built right!!

 

I read the Caddy forum also - love those big 500 motors! Anyway, the Caddy guys seem to say that only a TH400 or a 4L80E will take the Caddy's torque and that anything else won't live behind a Caddy 500. We are talking 500-600 ft-lbs of torque in even a mild rebuild for them. They say that with stock rear ends at 2.4:1, the Caddy big block likes to have a load to pull against at low rpm. Talk about a lack of torque multiplication in first gear - I guess the torque converter is the salvation there! Of course, I also read here of many success stories with guys pushing big torque from Chevy engines through the 200 and 700 trannies... Although I have toyed with the idea of getting an '82 for road trips, for now I am glad I run a four-speed in my '73!

 

I would like to have a 4L80E as well but again very expensive. And I do agree with the Caddy statement because the Caddy is much heavier than the corvette by about 1000 pounds or so.

 

Just installed the 200r4 and boy am I happy. Easy to install with great results. I bought the crossmember and detent plates from Bowtie but got everything else locally. Ran just about $1,600 and that included alittle for a tranny guy to fine tune the install.
1500rpm at 70 mph vs 3200rpm at 70 mph. Can use say mileage increase. Also alot less wear and tear on the engine.

Kona

 

BTW - you didn't need the crossmember.. Bolted right on the original crossmember on my Vette...

 

Crossmembers changed in 80 and guess what I have an 80 so thats why I bought one. The stock one would have worked if I wanted to do a little welding but thought better to go the Bowtie route.
It can be modified with not much work alittle plate and a welder will do the trick.

Kona

 

I always thought that it changed in '82...

Didn't the '80 come with a TH350 or TH400?

 

Yep I had a TH350 before the 200r4 and we tried to use the original crossmember but no worky. Talked to several folks and 79 was the last year they were compatible. Don't you just love the reasoning in some of G.M.'s designs?
My dad always said if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Kona

 

Interesting... I was told that the TH200R4 will work with any car that orignally had the TH350... Very strange...

 

If you plan to use a 200 on anything over 400 HP you should find someone who builds them for the buick GN guys. This is all they run and there are only a handful of people that really know how to build a 200 to handler real hp. I got mine from bowler transmissions built for Nitrous and they said 750 Hp is a cake walk for what they built into my trans. Converter selection is also very important.

I say spend the money on a good 200. If you talk to Bowler they will tell you hands down that the technology avaiable for the 200 has leap frogged anything currently available for the 700.

http://www.bowlertransmissions.com/

Just take a look at who all they have built transmissions for. I think you will be shocked.

 

IF I was aware of the 2004's very existance back in '97 when I did my 700 install, I would have gone that route, and I know first hand I don't like the 700 one damn bit, someday I will swiitch.....

there is NO CURE FOR THE 3/4 clutch pack repeated failures....NONE....

GENE

 

I have a 700 in my Vette and am very happy with it. I keep coming back to the question that nobody has been able to answer. If the 200 is "all that" why did GM never use it behind anything bigger than a 307 Olds? It was never put in a truck or Corvette behind a 350 let alone a 454. Kind of the same thing with TH350/TH400. You can make a TH350 perform better than a TH400, but they don't last as long with high HP. TH350 was never offered behind a big block stock.

I have an 83 3/4 ton 4x4 truck with a 700. The first one lasted 80k miles pulling trailers in OD with no cooler. It died (front pump) and I got a GM rebuild and an extra cooler. At 160k I thought it was bad but a very expensive lesson later I found out the rearend was bad. Wasn't the transmissions fault, it could have gone a lot longer.

My point is that somebody that knows how to build one can make one last. The transmission guy that built the one in the truck now has a drag Nova with 454 (runs high 6s in the 1/8). He ran a 700 all season without touching it.

 

Nobody is recommending putting a box stock 200-4R in a C3. Over the years, the 200-4R's weak points have been addressed by the aftermarket rebuilders. For example, a Stage II Bowtie tranny will handle about 400 hp/tq. They do several things to ensure reliability.

Go ask the Buick GN guys who are running 9 second 1/4's using 200-4R trannys.

BTW: Kona is right. GM changed the crossmember in '80 as part of their "slim-fast" C3 weight loss program.

 

i am using the 700r4.....mainly because when i did my research when i found the 700r4 and it fit all my needs i stopped looking for other choices.....i have been happy with it.

 

I went with a 700r4, and let me tell you that it sure was worth it! I'm running a SB with a Lunati solid lifter cam in it, and running 90 down the interstate the cam is still loping between the overdrive, lock-up converter, and 3.08 rear end. Totally awesome, and on the highway it gets better gas mileage than my four cylinder jeep. On three quarters of a tank I drove her from Myrtle Beach to Clemson (opposite ends of SC). Excellent choice IMHO.

I actually modified the stock crosmember. Just cut a portion out to shorten the bracket that actually attatches to the tranny. Some people say that you have to move the e-brake cable, but I didn't have to. Driveshaft shortening by a competent machine shop (if you are in South Carolina, Sam's Truck Springs and Drive Shafts in Florence does an excellent job, and so does Maco Driveshafts also in Florence) shouldn't be that much. I paid 60 dollars for two new U-joints and the shortening. For 150 they would have made me a brand new aluminum one.

For the lockup converter toggle switch, I just went to the junkyard and got a plug (its important to have the right plug since they are designed to be waterproof when plugged in. If you don't have it and run into high water it could cause a short). Wired it with a simple toggle switch (though more complex solutions are available).

The shifter bracket takes some modification to the bolt holes and possibly a little welding to allow for adjustment. You'll need another shifter (or a kit from BowtieOverdrives [www.700r4.com]) if you want to manually be able to shift to first gear. Otherwise, the stock shifter is completely usable. With slight modification to the shift plate and to the console for clearance, it is of course possible to make the stock one work in that capacity as well though I haven't done it (and I am using the stock shifter)

Speedometer gear will need to be set according on your rear end and tires (mine uses a 17 drive gear and 39 driven gear for a 3.08 rear end and stock tire size), but the cable, speedo, and cruise all work as set up for the th350. Stock flexplate bolts right up as well, so no worries there. You will have to get a 700r4 style dustcover though (I've not done that yet myself).

The TV cable is somewhat different from the kickdown cable for your TH350. You'll have to fabricate a bracket (make sure you get the geometry right, as this cable both functions for kickdown and also controls the shift points as the 700 does not utilize a vacuum solenoid like the th350 does). You can also order the TV Made Easy bracket kit for your specific carb from www.700r4.com

One more thing... if your previous tranny died and that is what led to the swap (like mine), then remember to make sure you properly flush the cooler or you'll have a lot of problems (like I did, and I felt quite stupid afterwards).

Good luck, I hope that helped!
If you do do the swap, feel free to ask me any questions or post them to the board and somebody will help you out. If you are in the viscinity of Clemson, SC (or Myrtle Beach), then I'd be more than happy to let you look at my 79 as an example.



- Jack Cooper