Problems with braking and turning
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,126
Likes: 174
From: WI
[QUOTE=norvalwilhe Real race cars don't run proportioning valves. They limit how fast the rear brakes come off too.[/QUOTE]
In a sence they DO...they run a balance bar that limits the amount of force the pedal applies to the rear master, they also run different size masters front & rear.
...redvetracr
In a sence they DO...they run a balance bar that limits the amount of force the pedal applies to the rear master, they also run different size masters front & rear.
...redvetracr
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by redvetracr
They run hot because they tape the grill openings for DOWNFORCE!!
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
[QUOTE=redvetracr]
In a sence they DO...they run a balance bar that limits the amount of force the pedal applies to the rear master, they also run different size masters front & rear.
...redvetracr
That's the way Roger does his race cars. A balance bar to limit pedal force to the rear.
With my 14 inch rotors and 1 7/8 calipers on the front and 12 inch rear with 1 3/8th caliper pistons I figure I already have alot of bias built into the system.
Originally Posted by norvalwilhe Real race cars don't run proportioning valves. They limit how fast the rear brakes come off too.[/QUOTE
In a sence they DO...they run a balance bar that limits the amount of force the pedal applies to the rear master, they also run different size masters front & rear.
...redvetracr
With my 14 inch rotors and 1 7/8 calipers on the front and 12 inch rear with 1 3/8th caliper pistons I figure I already have alot of bias built into the system.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
With my 14 inch rotors and 1 7/8 calipers on the front and 12 inch rear with 1 3/8th caliper pistons I figure I already have alot of bias built into the system.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Originally Posted by turtlevette
you're throwing the bias out of whack. With the same clamping force 2" further out your getting 14/12 = 1.17 times more torque in the front which could cause the front to dive excessively.
forgot about that earlier, or would have said it....
oh well, Norv needs another project....eh ???
GENE
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 2
From: Eastern Connecticut
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
That's the way Roger does his race cars. A balance bar to limit pedal force to the rear.
With my 14 inch rotors and 1 7/8 calipers on the front and 12 inch rear with 1 3/8th caliper pistons I figure I already have alot of bias built into the system.
With my 14 inch rotors and 1 7/8 calipers on the front and 12 inch rear with 1 3/8th caliper pistons I figure I already have alot of bias built into the system.
Also, from my experience at race driving schools, you really shouldn't brake after your turn-in point, except in special cases. The tires can only do a limited amount of work at any given time. It's called a friction circle or G-circle or something like that.
Joe
Last edited by joe73vette; May 24, 2005 at 05:08 PM.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: Bradenton Florida
Originally Posted by redvetracr
#1
norval, we ALL know it doesn`t cost $4K to flow a set of heads and if I remember correctly YOU ported those heads yourself.
#2
If it`s a "known fact" then why does EVERY professional racing series from NASCAR to NHRA use ALUMINUM HEADS ????
...redvetracr
norval, we ALL know it doesn`t cost $4K to flow a set of heads and if I remember correctly YOU ported those heads yourself.
#2
If it`s a "known fact" then why does EVERY professional racing series from NASCAR to NHRA use ALUMINUM HEADS ????
...redvetracr
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Racer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: Bradenton Florida
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
No the heads were ported before I bought them then I added the best valve guides I could get, I also bought severe duty valves. I worked on the ports then had Dave Rayborne do them fixing any turbulance I had.
I went to the speed shop and I need a Brodix head in the $3800 range to flow 348 cfm at 600 lifts. That is what the heads would cost me to replace what I have now.
As for aluminum vs cast iron I am not a racer. I just like to drive fast. I will not bother switching to aluminum unless I get a helloff adeal on a set better then I have now.
I also doesn't handle like a cadillac, no cady can follow me around a right hand turn onto another street at 60 mph.
I went to the speed shop and I need a Brodix head in the $3800 range to flow 348 cfm at 600 lifts. That is what the heads would cost me to replace what I have now.
As for aluminum vs cast iron I am not a racer. I just like to drive fast. I will not bother switching to aluminum unless I get a helloff adeal on a set better then I have now.
I also doesn't handle like a cadillac, no cady can follow me around a right hand turn onto another street at 60 mph.
The sb2.2 heads im going to get flow 400 cfm and there sb. but they do cost 14k new. but i have connections and can get them for 4k with matched and ported intake.
me to! 
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by C4kid94
Only 348 cfm The sb2.2 heads im going to get flow 400 cfm and there sb. but they do cost 14k new. but i have connections and can get them for 4k with matched and ported intake.
The sb2.2 heads im going to get flow 400 cfm and there sb. but they do cost 14k new. but i have connections and can get them for 4k with matched and ported intake.When using a flat tappet cam you also need a block w/ revised lifter bore angles & spacing because of the spread intake port and intake rockers, offset lifters won't get you enough offset for use w/ a flat tappet cam.
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; May 25, 2005 at 05:13 AM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by C4kid94
i agree aluminum are better and it wont cost 4k. ill describe a 4k job that super modifieds run. the port in out some much they go in to the bolt holes and ohter spots and have to epoxy the holes. And i dont even think that cost 4k.
Last winter I spent about $6000 on the modifations I made. I try to limit myself each year to about $5000. The year I went and converted to the blower I spend $9500 on the conversion.
When do you say the hell with it? It is only something to occupy my winter hours. I don't want to throw too much money at it all at once.
If I came across a really good deal on a big set of heads I would take it. I remember MountainMotor offered me a really good set at a good price. Maybe next winter.
Anyone see American HOt rod last night and the 1500 horse small block vet they built???
Last edited by norvalwilhelm; May 25, 2005 at 08:32 AM.
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
Originally Posted by turtlevette
you're throwing the bias out of whack. With the same clamping force 2" further out your getting 14/12 = 1.17 times more torque in the front which could cause the front to dive excessively.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by 427V8
C5's and C6's have a lot more front Bias than our cars do...
With my dynalites on front that slightly reduced front brake torque i really like the way it stops now with less nose dive.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Originally Posted by turtlevette
With my dynalites on front that slightly reduced front brake torque i really like the way it stops now with less nose dive.
I wasn't going to get in on the science of iron and aluminum. But modern thermal barrier coating on the chambers, valves, and ports keep the energy in the cylinder and not going out to your radiator. That's why I have sent my heads and parts to www.swaintech.com
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by gkull
which tire or tires locks up first and what is the maximum speed that you have been able to lock up a tire. the maximum speed really is a function of two things. How good your brakes are raises the speed and how good your tires are lowers the speed.
I would not feel comfortable with a system that wouldn't lock at any speed.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,434
Likes: 0
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
I'm interested about that engine combo. It's great if you can get those heads with the corresponding intake and know what they were ported for. Most of the sets on ebay are for restrictor plate racing or are rejects that didn't work, without the intake manifold most of them are useless as the intake has to match the port design in the head for max. efficiency, the cfm isn't the only thing that matters. There's a reason why those heads are relativly cheap on ebaymotors, they were designed for a very specific application (or if they're rejects they're worthless on almost anything) and you may not get what you expected. It's the same thign with a lot o stuff on ebaymotors, especially the cup parts...buyers beware. Same goes for the SB2 heads, they are similar (but different) to the later SB2.2 head but the main difference is in the compression ratio, those heads are for very high CR and they were dropped when nascar lowered the CR rules, the parts for those heads are almost impossible to get, the current SB2.2 head components are widely available but expensive.
When using a flat tappet cam you also need a block w/ revised lifter bore angles & spacing because of the spread intake port and intake rockers, offset lifters won't get you enough offset for use w/ a flat tappet cam.
When using a flat tappet cam you also need a block w/ revised lifter bore angles & spacing because of the spread intake port and intake rockers, offset lifters won't get you enough offset for use w/ a flat tappet cam.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
is it muscle motorsports? a flat tappet cam is a cam for use w/ flat tappet lifters..hmm..how to explain..err not rollers 
the profiles are different (less extreme) than the rollers and the lifters spin which makes that the pushrod has to sit in the middle, rollers don't spin and therefore they can use offset pushrods.
the profiles are different (less extreme) than the rollers and the lifters spin which makes that the pushrod has to sit in the middle, rollers don't spin and therefore they can use offset pushrods.
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; May 25, 2005 at 06:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by C4kid94
Only 348 cfm The sb2.2 heads im going to get flow 400 cfm and there sb. but they do cost 14k new. but i have connections and can get them for 4k with matched and ported intake.
The sb2.2 heads im going to get flow 400 cfm and there sb. but they do cost 14k new. but i have connections and can get them for 4k with matched and ported intake.All intakes run between 15 and 25% lose.
With a blower putting out 12 psi my flow actually goes up alot. I wish I could figure out how much but my heads were flowed with 28 inches of vacuum, I would love to know the flow numbers with boost.