Here is a motor for Dep
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
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From: Forked River NJ
Here is a motor for Dep
Check out this 350. I found this in the C2 section. This 350 puts down some power. I'm sure it is $$$. Turns 9000 rpm, that would sound good in a Vette.
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar..._0506_thunder/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar..._0506_thunder/
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Canada
then Dep would have to respond to the post "My engine has too much hp what aftermkt part should I add next to lower it".
You are right that this would be one expensive engine - not only the cost of the engine but many of us would be replacing our trannies, rear end etc.
You are right that this would be one expensive engine - not only the cost of the engine but many of us would be replacing our trannies, rear end etc.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Gordonm
Check out this 350. I found this in the C2 section. This 350 puts down some power. I'm sure it is $$$. Turns 9000 rpm, that would sound good in a Vette.
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar..._0506_thunder/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar..._0506_thunder/
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
No conspiracy, interesting build, but why...
"Grady began with a cast-iron, two-bolt main bearing block..."????
I didn't see any restrictions in the rules saying they couldn't use 4-bolt mains.
"...this 355 made 632 hp at 7,500 rpm and 502 lb-ft at 5,900 rpm."
Awww heck...most guys on the forum wouldn't like that motor...not enough tork!!!!
"Accurate vacuum plasma ion treatment"
I think I had that done to my back when I went to the Cairo-practer.
An interesting exercise in building a motor with unlimited funds.
Dep
"Grady began with a cast-iron, two-bolt main bearing block..."????
I didn't see any restrictions in the rules saying they couldn't use 4-bolt mains.
"...this 355 made 632 hp at 7,500 rpm and 502 lb-ft at 5,900 rpm."
Awww heck...most guys on the forum wouldn't like that motor...not enough tork!!!!
"Accurate vacuum plasma ion treatment"
I think I had that done to my back when I went to the Cairo-practer.
An interesting exercise in building a motor with unlimited funds.
Dep
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by DJ Dep
No conspiracy, interesting build, but why...
"Grady began with a cast-iron, two-bolt main bearing block..."????
I didn't see any restrictions in the rules saying they couldn't use 4-bolt mains.
"Grady began with a cast-iron, two-bolt main bearing block..."????
I didn't see any restrictions in the rules saying they couldn't use 4-bolt mains.
Pro
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 520
Likes: 5
From: Front Range
twin turbo is exactly correct.
A seasoned two bolt main block with standard bore and 010/020 casting is the ideal starting point for a high performance small block.
ask me how rock solid my bottom end is... (don't take that the wrong way)
the blonde weasel
A seasoned two bolt main block with standard bore and 010/020 casting is the ideal starting point for a high performance small block.
ask me how rock solid my bottom end is... (don't take that the wrong way)
the blonde weasel
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 1
From: New Cumberland PA
Dep might have got lost when the article opened up with 'new tech'. Then onto top of that they use modern Vortec heads. I guess they never heard of fulie heads and something called a 302. Sure looks like they wasted a bunch of time and money, when they could have built an old school 302 based on 30+ year old technology. It's a shame that they are limited to 362ci, it would have been more entertaining to see them use a higher torque 3.75" crank.
Then onto top of that they use modern Vortec heads. I guess they never heard of fulie heads and something called a 302. Sure looks like they wasted a bunch of time and money, when they could have built an old school 302 based on 30+ year old technology. It's a shame that they are limited to 362ci, it would have been more entertaining to see them use a higher torque 3.75" crank.
Last edited by mandm1200; Jun 8, 2005 at 05:16 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Originally Posted by mandm1200
Dep might have got lost when the article opened up with 'new tech'. Then onto top of that they use modern Vortec heads. I guess they never heard of fulie heads and something called a 302. Sure looks like they wasted a bunch of time and money, when they could have built an old school 302 based on 30+ year old technology. It's a shame that they are limited to 362ci, it would have been more entertaining to see them use a higher torque 3.75" crank.
Then onto top of that they use modern Vortec heads. I guess they never heard of fulie heads and something called a 302. Sure looks like they wasted a bunch of time and money, when they could have built an old school 302 based on 30+ year old technology. It's a shame that they are limited to 362ci, it would have been more entertaining to see them use a higher torque 3.75" crank.It WOULD have been interesting to see a full blast 302 built with unlimited funds like they did with this motor. No exotic blower or turbo, just conventional induction.
Here's what was done by the factory back in 1969:
http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/...s/crossram.htm
458 HP from the 302 @ 7200 RPM
Dep
Thread Starter
Race Director
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From: Forked River NJ
Years ago in Hot Rod they did an article on a 302. I think it was called Ports of Haul. They got around 600 HP out of a 302. Huge cam, major port work on iron heads and 2 4 barrels. It was a drag only motor. I think it was the late 70s. Showing my age here.
I just found it. It was August of 1975. That was the first year I started reading HR. They were using the Turbo heads exstensivly modified and a tunnel ram intake. It was running around 12.5 to 1 compression. The ultra exotic heads as they called them cost 2000 dollars back then. Big bucks for 75.
I just found it. It was August of 1975. That was the first year I started reading HR. They were using the Turbo heads exstensivly modified and a tunnel ram intake. It was running around 12.5 to 1 compression. The ultra exotic heads as they called them cost 2000 dollars back then. Big bucks for 75.
Last edited by Gordonm; Jun 8, 2005 at 08:49 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
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From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by DJ Dep
Yeah....I knew you "Stroker Aces" (HA!) would have wanted a bogus big block instead of what they built. Actually, Winston Cup motors are limited to 358 cubes. I WOULDN'T want the Vortec heads. I don't like being restricted to only a limited manifold choice.
458 HP from the 302 @ 7200 RPM
Dep
458 HP from the 302 @ 7200 RPM
Dep
The engine in the article had some fancy work done on the bottom end. The topend where horsepower (and torque
) are made was severly limited; stock carb, stock intake, stock heads. They got to choose a cam. Might have been a custom grind or something off their shelf. The thing made over 160hp more than the 302 you keep referring to. .Anyone including you would be a fool to use the old heads, when these new Vortecs severely outflow them. These new Vortec heads outflow the older Vortecs. The proof is there, 632hp from a cheap set of iron heads.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: East China MI
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
mandm1200: No doubt about it...NASCAR engines are NOT for the guy who's worrying about the price of gas 
. Actually, you would have to use a LOT of octane booster to even get it to run. HOWEVER, the average C3 Vette is much closer to a NASCAR cup engine than you realize. Single 4 bbl Holley carb, single 4 bbl manifold, solid lifter FLAT TAPPET cam, mechanical fuel pump, etc.
Actually, the parts that cost the MOST money to build, and are worth their weight in gold, are the cylinder heads. NASCAR teams sped a LOT of money getting the absolute TOP performance out of the heads.
Yeah that magazine engine made big HP. BUT AT WHAT COST????
You are too quick to disparage the old heads and jump on these new ones. Those old heads STILL make tons of HP and flow VERY well.
The "trick" to getting that horsepower is compression. If you are farting around with 9 or 10 to one, you just ain't gonna make it.
Dep
. Actually, you would have to use a LOT of octane booster to even get it to run. HOWEVER, the average C3 Vette is much closer to a NASCAR cup engine than you realize. Single 4 bbl Holley carb, single 4 bbl manifold, solid lifter FLAT TAPPET cam, mechanical fuel pump, etc.Actually, the parts that cost the MOST money to build, and are worth their weight in gold, are the cylinder heads. NASCAR teams sped a LOT of money getting the absolute TOP performance out of the heads.
Yeah that magazine engine made big HP. BUT AT WHAT COST????
You are too quick to disparage the old heads and jump on these new ones. Those old heads STILL make tons of HP and flow VERY well.
The "trick" to getting that horsepower is compression. If you are farting around with 9 or 10 to one, you just ain't gonna make it.
Dep
Thread Starter
Race Director
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From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by jpatrick636
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Originally Posted by Gordonm
That is an airplane engine. They don't turn many rpm. My .12 and .15 Nitro engines will turn 40,000 rpm. They do on occasion break a connecting rod but man does it scream.
Pretty neat!!!
Dep
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Originally Posted by DJ Dep
mandm1200: No doubt about it...NASCAR engines are NOT for the guy who's worrying about the price of gas . Actually, you would have to use a LOT of octane booster to even get it to run. HOWEVER, the average C3 Vette is much closer to a NASCAR cup engine than you realize. Single 4 bbl Holley carb, single 4 bbl manifold, solid lifter FLAT TAPPET cam, mechanical fuel pump, etc.
Actually, the parts that cost the MOST money to build, and are worth their weight in gold, are the cylinder heads. NASCAR teams sped a LOT of money getting the absolute TOP performance out of the heads.
. Actually, you would have to use a LOT of octane booster to even get it to run. HOWEVER, the average C3 Vette is much closer to a NASCAR cup engine than you realize. Single 4 bbl Holley carb, single 4 bbl manifold, solid lifter FLAT TAPPET cam, mechanical fuel pump, etc.Actually, the parts that cost the MOST money to build, and are worth their weight in gold, are the cylinder heads. NASCAR teams sped a LOT of money getting the absolute TOP performance out of the heads.
And your clunky old SBC close to a late sb2.2 engine? come on, you must be joking. They are so far apart, especially when it comes to the valve train and the heads. For instance the valve train, apart from using shaft mounted rockers let's compare the flat tappet lifters & cam. The nascar stuff is far more advanced than what your standard SBC has, special cam cores made from special alloys with hardened and inlaid lobe faves, oversize zero radius tappets, cam oilers and major block modifications and for what...to get the maximum out of them and have them last the 500 or so miles. If they were allowed to run rollers they would. Just because something puts out good numbers on a race engine doesn't mean it's the ultimate, especially when there are rules & restrictions, and 500 miles..that ain't a whole lot
Compare apples to apples, to get that kind of performance out of your engine w/ a similar valve train that will hold up for many many miles is impossible, if you can do it you need to call a nascar team, they will want to hire you.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: B'Ville NY
Cruise-In III Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by iNdigo
twin turbo is exactly correct.
ask me how rock solid my bottom end is... (don't take that the wrong way)
the blonde weasel
ask me how rock solid my bottom end is... (don't take that the wrong way)
the blonde weasel
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
The nascar boys aren't running the SB2 heads anymore but SB2.2 ... check out the compression ratios..you'll be amazed.
And your clunky old SBC close to a late sb2.2 engine? come on, you must be joking. They are so far apart, especially when it comes to the valve train and the heads. For instance the valve train, apart from using shaft mounted rockers let's compare the flat tappet lifters & cam. The nascar stuff is far more advanced than what your standard SBC has, special cam cores made from special alloys with hardened and inlaid lobe faves, oversize zero radius tappets, cam oilers and major block modifications and for what...to get the maximum out of them and have them last the 500 or so miles. If they were allowed to run rollers they would. Just because something puts out good numbers on a race engine doesn't mean it's the ultimate, especially when there are rules & restrictions, and 500 miles..that ain't a whole lot Compare apples to apples, to get that kind of performance out of your engine w/ a similar valve train that will hold up for many many miles is impossible, if you can do it you need to call a nascar team, they will want to hire you.
And your clunky old SBC close to a late sb2.2 engine? come on, you must be joking. They are so far apart, especially when it comes to the valve train and the heads. For instance the valve train, apart from using shaft mounted rockers let's compare the flat tappet lifters & cam. The nascar stuff is far more advanced than what your standard SBC has, special cam cores made from special alloys with hardened and inlaid lobe faves, oversize zero radius tappets, cam oilers and major block modifications and for what...to get the maximum out of them and have them last the 500 or so miles. If they were allowed to run rollers they would. Just because something puts out good numbers on a race engine doesn't mean it's the ultimate, especially when there are rules & restrictions, and 500 miles..that ain't a whole lot
Compare apples to apples, to get that kind of performance out of your engine w/ a similar valve train that will hold up for many many miles is impossible, if you can do it you need to call a nascar team, they will want to hire you.And I DIDN'T say the NASCAR engines were EXACTLY the same as what we run. I said they were CLOSE. They do have everything I mentioned. Just MORE advanced. Actually, the Busch cars DO run roller cams.
So what "apples" do you want to compare the Vette engine to???
A F1 car? A CART car? An Indy car? A Can Am car? A funnycar or rail?
The answer is no, no, no, no, and no.
500 miles ain't a hell of a lot? Oh right...I'm sure YOUR engine can run at 7000+ RPM for 500 miles
And a newsflash for you. Back in the early 60s Mercury had a commercial and all kinds of ads in Hot Rod magazine. Using 4 Mercury Comets with 289 engines, they ran 100,000 miles at 100 miles per hour.
Impossible for us? I don't think so.
Dep