I have decided that it's time for me to move on to rebuilding the 427. The block has been bored .030 and has a set of trw speed pro pistons in it rated at 9.46:1 w/107cc heads. I was wondering what rings I should use and cam. I'm gonna check out the bottom end to make sure everything's within spec. Also, which head gaskets I should use. I'll be using an edelbrock airgap intake with a holley double pumper. I would like to see some decent #'s out of this motor. And as far as drivability goes- it doesn't really matter a whole lot, it's just for occasional cruising and if I feel good about the setup I may take it to test and tune night. With the 454, I ran a crane cam with 236/246 duration and .553/.571 lift. I could drive that around with no problem, and I was thinking about going with more duration. Gotta love that rough idle... I have about 1000 bucks to do what I have to do. This is finals week, so I'm pretty busy right now. I also have a nice set of full roller rockers that I picked up from a friend a couple years back. I think I'd like to go with a roller solid, but not sure if it would be for me or if it would be beneficial. Should I spend it on a roller setup? or should I spend it on the crank? or?? I can balance all the rods and do a valve grind.

 

does anyone know the cc's of a set of original 69 390 horse heads?

 

I think I like the sounds of a solid roller, but can I get into one with the required components? I'll need to get all new gaskets and a set of rings. Anyone have a recommendation for a solid roller? Or... even any reasons not to go that route

 

You've got mail!

JIM

 

I don't want to be rude - but could you post your thoughts?

I always enjoy your posts and I'm curious...

My thoughts are that I wouldn't spend the grand on a roller setup.

 

The #215's, '68 390HP come in at 106 cc's. The 063's '69 390HP I don't have numbers for, the #290's (I have these on a resto dated for a '69 Vette, but this only according to my customer) come in at 103 cc's. Hope it helps! Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

 

is there good reason to paint the lifter valley? I saw it a bit when I was working at the rod shop, and was wondering if I should paint mine when it's apart.

 

Painting the lifter valley decreases the porosity of the cast iron surface, thereby enhancing oil drainback... at least that's what people say. Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort of masking off all the machined surfaces... oil is going to drain back fine, and unless you're running a motor where .01% power really makes a difference, it's just a waste of time albeit a chance to learn something new. just don't try it and end up with paint in your lifter bores...

the blonde weasel

 

The paint will do a couple of things. When you paint it. It will help oil return faster to the pan and if you have a high RPM Engine with a small oil pan the faster you can get the oil back to it the better off you are. Also what the paint will do is if there are any small particles of metal on the surface the paint will seal them in so they do not break loose and go through the Engine. But to me for an every day Engine. I would just de burr everything and clean up the oil return holes in the valley and do a scrub bath with detergent to get it as clean as I could then just spray it down with some kind of lubricant to keep it from rusting before you assemble the engine.

 

I won't use it as a daily driver, and I would like to be able to run it up there in rpm's.

 

Here's what I sent....it was late and I just did it e-mail..but it's no big secret...

I love 427's....I've still got mine on the stand in the garage. I've had it for 25 years now! It has literally had a gazzilion cams, square port, oval ports, open chamber, closed chamber, who knows how many intakes and carbs etc. From 750's, to Holley 3 bbls, to Dominators. It's had everything from 9.8 compression to 12.0 compression with just head changes along with two stages of nitrous!! It is still std bore and std crank. Those little suckers are tough!!

Is the shortblock all together already or are you gathering parts? I see no reason to change crank if you have everything else. If you are still shopping...get a 4.25 crank and build a 489!

If it's all apart...I'd figure out deck height. If it's never been decked, then my guess is it's got the pistons .017-.022 below the deck. You want to end up with somewhere around .035 from the psiton to the head if possible. I always used steel shim gaskets..you can get them cheap at GM or from Mr gasket. They are around .020-.022. That way with an undecked block you end up with .037-.042 max deck height. That's MUCH better than using the typical .038-.042 Fel Pro blue gaskets. "Quench" is a great way to run a little more compression AND have less chance of detonation. If the block has been decked, we just need to find a gasket to get in the same total clearance range.

I like to use the Speed Pro file to fit rings. You can get them in the SRP line too. They are .005 oversize and you can file them to get perfect ring gaps. They are great rings. Cost a little more, but you don't want to scrimp here.
Bearings can just be normal Sealed Power or TRW or even Michigans for something like this. Just don't use the cheap ones from India and stuff..get a brand name.

Use a stock volume Mellings oil pump with the HP spring.

If you can swing a larger oil pan. It's a good thing.

The Air Gap is a great intake. Use a 750 Double Pumper. 4779 Holley or equivalent.

The heads are where the power is on any motor. The rest just has to stay together. Have you tried any pocket porting? It's not that hard..just takes a little time. I can give you some tips if you want to try.

You REALLY need to CC the heads. I often find heads that are "supposed" to be 100cc or 109cc or whatever..end up in the 115cc or more range after they have had a few valvejobs and valves are thinner and seats are sunk. Lots of folks have a lot less compression than they think.

You could install 2.19/1.88 valves, but you have to be careful. Not a lot of power at this level and you have to watch the bigger valves with the TRW replacement (not race type) pistons. They get tight in the corners of pockets.

A roller cam will eat up most of your $1000 budget. There are some great ones out there..but you have to be prepared for maintenance issues with them (solid roller). Lifters need regular replacement/rebuilds.

A good solid flat tappet is the best thing I would think for what you are doing. Someday when the money tree sprouts lots of leaves, you can switch to a roller.

Here's a Crane solid Flat tappet I always loved. It ran well and never hurt parts. Something goofy with their chart in the spring section..but you can get an idea,

You have to get good springs with any serious cam.

I ran deep into the 11's with this cam with 9.8 compression, GM iron oval ports @3600 lbs in a Camaro.

Let me know what you think. It's pretty late and I'm a little tired.

See ya,

JIM



BROWSE PRODUCTS

Select Category
Main > Camshafts




Select Application
Main > Vehicle_Type - Auto > Cylinders - 8 > Engine_Make - CHEVROLET > Year - 1979 > Engine_Size - 396-454 C.I.




Camshaft Specification Card
BACK TO LIST








Part Number:
134691
Grind Number:
F-290-2 (REPLACES CC-290A)




Engine Identification:


Start Yr.
End Yr.
Make
Cyl
Description
1967
Up
CHEVROLET
8
Engine Size
Configuration

396-454 C.I.
V

ROUGH IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD UPPER RPM HP, BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/ 3000+ CONVERTER, 4200-4600 CRUISE RPM, 11.5 TO 12.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 4200-7200



Valve Setting:
Intake
.026
Exhaust
.026
HOT



Lift:
Intake @Cam
3412
@Valve
580
Exhaust @ Cam
3528
@Valve
600

Rocker Arm Ratio
1.70


All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.



Cam Timing:
TAPPET
@.022
Lift:

Opens
Closes
ADV Duration

Intake
39.0 BTDC
71.0 ABDC
290 °

Exhaust
84.0 BBDC
36.0 ATDC
300 °



Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number
99896
Loads
Closed
4000
LBS @
150
or
1.900

Open
1 29/32
LBS @
7500





Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM
428
Maximum RPM
1.350
Valve Float
8100



Cam Timing:
TAPPET
@.050
Lift:

Opens
Closes
Max Lift
Duration

Intake
23.0 BTDC
53.0 ABDC
105
256 °

Exhaust
68.0 BBDC
18.0 ATDC
115
266 °



Remarks:







Crane Cams continuously improves and upgrades its cam designs. In some cases this may mean that two Crane Cams with the same part number may actually be different grinds. You must check the GRIND NUMBER stamped on the front of the camshaft and check it against the Grind Number near the top of the Spec Card. For more information on the finest available camshafts, valve train components, and automotive ignition products, visit your local Crane dealer or call the Crane Cams tech line at (386) 258-6174 or FAX (386) 258-6167






install instructions
Related Products
Pushrods > Chrome Moly Steel
13634-16
Rocker Arms > Energizer
13744-16
Rocker Arms > Gold Race > Extruded Roller
13750-16
Rocker Arms > Die-Formed Steel & Steel Roller Tip
13801-16
Timing Chains and Components > Performance Steel Billet, CNC Mach Roller TCS
13975-1
Timing Chains and Components > Multi-Keyway, All-Metal, Roller TCS
13993-1
Valve Stem Locks > Stamped Steel Locks 7°
Single Groove
99042-1
Valve Stem Locks > Machined Steel Locks 7°
Single Groove
99098-1
Lifters > Hydraulic and Mechanical
99250-16
Valve Stem Seals (Hi-Performance Teflon®)
99822-16
Valve Springs > Dual
99890-16
99893-16
99896-16
Camshafts
134692

 

Thanks! I owe you a beer (or many)!

 

Thanks Jim, I pulled the motor down some today. The heads, oil pan and timing chain cover are off. I'm gonna look into getting some parts tomm. And Jim, I may be interested in some tips for the heads, as I will have them all apart. My dad and I will be doing all the work on the heads. The heads are completely untouched.

 

I found there's about .010 between the top of the piston and the deck. Does this mean my block's been decked? or is it the trw L2500 pistons? also, it looks as if my keyway on the crank is about to sheer right off. but, I have to get back to the garage to try to get some work done.
will the steel shim gasket with .020 thickness work alright with this? I know that jim said I wanted to end up with about .035.

 

more news... the crank has been turned .020 and needs to be turned again. the pistons have rubbed on the cylinder walls some- no scratches in the cylinder, just on the pistons. so, looks like the motor ends up with more time and more money...

 

Can you see all the engine numbers still stamped on the engine pad at front of passenger deck? They usually disappear when block is decked.

You can get pretty close on deck height with a straightedge and feeler gauge. You need to measure in several places to get good readings. First, with piston at TDC, push down on one side and "rock it". Measure while you hold it down. Then push down on other side and rock it back the other way....tilt it up on the side you just measured. Spit the difference for a close estimate. If it comes above deck...you'll have to do some juggling.

Then measure on each side right at the center above wrist pins. Should be pretty close to what your "split the difference" reading was.

You might do some looking for another crank. There were some new inexpensive 427 cranks from GM in some of the big name advertisers a few months ago.

Of course this is a perfect time to build a 496!! Stroker cranks are cheap these days!

If you measure everything close, you can move quench area pretty tight...my 540 is at .028 total..but you have to look at stuff close. Double check deck measurements to make sure.

What's wrong with crank? Did it starve for oil or did trash go through it?

Need to make sure you fix whatever issue caused it!

JIM

 

the #'s are all gone on the front of the block, but it is stamped GM D. I took a couple measurements around one piston, and got in between .005 and .013, so I figured .010 would be about right. I can't measure right above the wristpins, as this area is raised above the deck. as far as the crank goes, it looks as if there was some junk run through it. I may consider a stroker crank, how much would it run?

 

Please,please,please ......................put in right length pushrods ,if you know what i mean

 

my new cam, lifters, springs, and retainers came in today and I'll be putting them in shortly. Should I break the cam in using the old springs? since they are a lighter spring? any break-in methods I should know about other than what they tell me? ended up, the cam I pulled out looked great and I thought it had wiped a lobe. I guess one of the lifters was just really noisy...

 

Jim you really have not had a 427 unless it's a small block

All the same rules apply as to cam duration and lift. Then of course cfm of head flow.