Tpi O2 headers
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
From: Mukilteo Washington
Tpi O2 headers
Getting ready to pease together a factory maf tpi in my 77 L48, I've already got the parts with the painless wire harness, I need to figure out the O2 senser, I think I heard something about a heated O2 senser that can be located down in the collector? I also need to put together some sort of a cold air intake with the maf senser, I have a th350 and was wondering about the speed senser as well, can anyone shed some light on this, I've got a couple books that teach you everything about the system but they don't show much on swapping these into older cars. Thanks
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 16
From: absecon nj
Ok yes if you have headers get a heated 3 wire(gm) or 4 wire(ford) o2 sensor,3 wire ones have one going to purple to the computer,one ground and one 12 volt wire(hot with key on).I have a custom air intake setup i made to go over the radiator support,i cut the center of the support out(idea from 70ls-1) and ran a 3 inch tube down to a vortex air filter behind the grille.Speed sensor i got from painless wiring ,instructions are included with it easy to wire.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
If you have a stock engine I would go Speed-Density so I didn't have to mess with the MAF, that's what I have. I have a 1-wire GM O2 sensor (89 IROC). I have C4 manifolds so I welded a bung in the exhaust just below the LH manifold, it heats up pretty fast. You can get a speed sensor that goes between the speedo cable and where it attaches to the transmission from Painless (Jegs, Summit, etc.). Or from Howell or Street & Performance. See www.jagsthatrun.com too. TPI is good stuff. I have it in my Vette and my 83 pickup as well.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
From: Mukilteo Washington
I don't have a exhaust yet, I was thinking about true duels from one of the corvette suppliers (or have it done locally) with headers, it has a new 2"-2 1/4" factory L48 type exhaust (prior owner installed it) but it routes to close to one of my smart strut poly bushings, I had to heat and bend the existing pipe to get minimum clearance plus it's hacked going threw the trans mount frame support. If anyone knows where I can order a ceramic set of headers with a O2 bung already installed that will fit a 77 them "please" let me know.
I could really use some pictures of your maf fresh air intakes, I need some ideas. I know speed density is simpler to plumb here and has it's advantages but I already have almost the complete maf system, I guess I could switch later if my engine needs it, I think I've only got a 180 HP from the factory and it's tired, I'm planning a zz4 or just stroke the 350 to a 383 this winter (This is my favorite part of the restore).
Is there anything else I should be asking about this swap? Is it that strait forward? Thanks for the trans info.
I could really use some pictures of your maf fresh air intakes, I need some ideas. I know speed density is simpler to plumb here and has it's advantages but I already have almost the complete maf system, I guess I could switch later if my engine needs it, I think I've only got a 180 HP from the factory and it's tired, I'm planning a zz4 or just stroke the 350 to a 383 this winter (This is my favorite part of the restore).
Is there anything else I should be asking about this swap? Is it that strait forward? Thanks for the trans info.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
My basic C3 TPI "primer". You probably know most of this, but you might glean something from it.
**************
You have a unit
First you have to determine whether you want mass air flow or speed density. The C3 is more conducive to speed-density due to space issues. Mass-air flow is easier to make engine changes without PROM changes. If you are technically proficient enough to make a Camaro harness work they can be bought for $100 or less. I have been told that you can also use a 3.1 Corsica or Cavailier harness with a little work, it uses the same 7730 Speed-Density ECM. Aftermarket harnesses range from about $300 for Painless to $500 for Howell to $700 for Street and Performance. Howell makes a great harness, but for a Tuned Port they do not make one that will control the converter lockup on a 200R4/700R4/4L60 transmission. If you are running a manual or non-overdrive-automatic transmission I highly recommend them. I have heard great things about Street and Performance harness, but do not have first hand experience with them. I also have a Fuel Injection Specialties (FIS) harness and it is OK. The ECM can be had used for $10-50. A good external fuel pump will cost at least $100. I use an 88 Ford Truck external pump, $114 from CarQuest, made in Texas by Airtech. If you have a 78-82 you can use your fuel tank with an 82 sending unit and a TPI pump. An aftermarket PROM with VATS and Emissions codes removed will be $100-200 depending on source and complexity. You will have to add an oxygen sensor to your exhaust, $20 for the sensor, $5 for the weld-in bung, and say $25 for an exhaust shop to weld it in if you can’t. Some harnesses use VSS and some do not. An auxiliary VSS sensor is around $75. To install a TPI I say figure at least $800 plus the TPI unit and whatever repairs are necessary to bring it up to useable status. I have TPI/700R4 in my 69 Corvette (Howell harness) and an 83 Pickup (FIS harness) and I love it. Starts good, great torque, good fuel mileage, easy to swap onto stock engines (although both of mine are complete engines out of 90/91 ‘Vettes).
Differences in years
All Corvette TPI intake manifolds work with the older (through 86) iron heads and the factory aluminum heads through 91. F-body TPI intakes use the upright center bolts on 87-92 and thus fit all 87-95 iron heads (non LT1). Either can be swapped to fit the other with some drilling. F-body has the fuel lines come out on the drivers side and has a central port for EGR. Corvette has fuel lines that come out on the passenger side and has an external port for EGR. Corvette fuel rails fit F-body intakes and vise-versa. The runners are all the same through the years, but the LH runner has a hole for a 9th injector in the 85-88 runners. This can be plugged off if you get a nice LH runner and don’t want the 9th injector or decide to run speed-density. The plenums all physically interchange, but 90-92 have an extra vacuum port for the MAP sensor used with the speed-density computers and wiring. 89 is an odd year, it is mass-air flow but without the 9th injector. 89 up throttle bodies can be used on all years, but a 85-88 throttle body requires a ½” hole be drilled in the front of a 89-92 Plenum for idle air. 89-92 Throttle bodies have a bit more desirable cable attachment. The cable attaches around a circular linkage which has a smoother actuation than the straight linkage on the 85-88. The Corvettes have an aluminum plenum extension over the distributor, the F-body extensions are plastic. The Corvettes use an HEI coil-in-cap distributor for 85-91 (Delco 1103680). 85-86 F-body also used a big-cap distributor. 87-92 F-Body used a small cap distributor with an external coil (Delco 1103479). This same distributor is used in the 87-95 5.0/5.7/7.4 TBI injected trucks. The F-body intake gets it's exhaust for EGR from the center passages in the heads like most SB Chevys. A Corvette intake gets it's EGR exhaust from the RH exhaust manifold/header through a flex-tube to an opening near the distributor-no center passages in the intake. If you are required to keep EGR and you have a Corvette intake, I recommend getting the C4 exhaust manifolds. They are like mini-headers, and have a 2 1/2" outlet. I have them on my 69 and like them.
As far as a throttle cable to use, on my Vette, I used a TPI Corvette cable, 1990 I think (about $20 new GM) but you have to cut the end off inside the car and use a hood-release-cable end (Corvette Central 342138 "cable stop") to get it the correct cable length (the housing is OK). You must use a cable from the type car your throttle body came from if you want to have a chance of not cutting it. Again, 85-88 use a straight pull, while 89-92 have a circular attachment for more smooth actuation and so the inner cable is longer. On my 83 truck I used a TPI F-Body cable and it was OK, but I had to coil it up into a loop in the engine compartment because the housing was so long. I also TPI'd a 72 Chevy truck and used a 90 350 TBI truck cable for it. It was 1/2" short outside if anything, but I was pretty pleased with it all told-I didn't have to shorten it. In a Vette it might be about right. In all vehicles I've done you need a die grinder to square the firewall hole off a bit. All vehicles I've done used the late throttle-body.
Why to get it
If all you want is around 300 hp there is no reason to spend a pile of money on a crate motor. The basic $1200 4-bolt Goodwrench 350 with an aluminum intake and a Holley will put out power in that neighborhood. Chevy High Performance (I think) did a series of articles with one of those a few years back and with decent exhaust should get you in that range.
I would look into a TPI. They start immediately in winter, have great vacuum, and will get great mileage. I can open the headlights and the wiper door at the same time with no hesitation at all-solid wooomp. With 3.70 gears (and a 700R4 overdrive) I get 18mpg city and 22+ highway. With 3.55 or 3.36 it would be even better. You can probably find a used Corvette TPI engine for $1000 and with an $800 harness/computer/fuel pump you would be set. On a 78-82 you can use the stock fuel tank with an 82 sending unit and TPI pump and be in better shape than 68-77 with an external pump. With the Vette TPI you would have aluminum heads that would remove weight. Even with an F-body iron-head TPI 350 it will be less weight than a stock intake. It will bolt up to everything in your car, use stock accessories, use your transmission, and the visual appeal is awesome. Don't be afraid of fuel injection, it really works.
As far as websites see:
www.corvettefaq.com for conversions or more TPI info at www.fuelinjection.com
**************
You have a unit
First you have to determine whether you want mass air flow or speed density. The C3 is more conducive to speed-density due to space issues. Mass-air flow is easier to make engine changes without PROM changes. If you are technically proficient enough to make a Camaro harness work they can be bought for $100 or less. I have been told that you can also use a 3.1 Corsica or Cavailier harness with a little work, it uses the same 7730 Speed-Density ECM. Aftermarket harnesses range from about $300 for Painless to $500 for Howell to $700 for Street and Performance. Howell makes a great harness, but for a Tuned Port they do not make one that will control the converter lockup on a 200R4/700R4/4L60 transmission. If you are running a manual or non-overdrive-automatic transmission I highly recommend them. I have heard great things about Street and Performance harness, but do not have first hand experience with them. I also have a Fuel Injection Specialties (FIS) harness and it is OK. The ECM can be had used for $10-50. A good external fuel pump will cost at least $100. I use an 88 Ford Truck external pump, $114 from CarQuest, made in Texas by Airtech. If you have a 78-82 you can use your fuel tank with an 82 sending unit and a TPI pump. An aftermarket PROM with VATS and Emissions codes removed will be $100-200 depending on source and complexity. You will have to add an oxygen sensor to your exhaust, $20 for the sensor, $5 for the weld-in bung, and say $25 for an exhaust shop to weld it in if you can’t. Some harnesses use VSS and some do not. An auxiliary VSS sensor is around $75. To install a TPI I say figure at least $800 plus the TPI unit and whatever repairs are necessary to bring it up to useable status. I have TPI/700R4 in my 69 Corvette (Howell harness) and an 83 Pickup (FIS harness) and I love it. Starts good, great torque, good fuel mileage, easy to swap onto stock engines (although both of mine are complete engines out of 90/91 ‘Vettes).
Differences in years
All Corvette TPI intake manifolds work with the older (through 86) iron heads and the factory aluminum heads through 91. F-body TPI intakes use the upright center bolts on 87-92 and thus fit all 87-95 iron heads (non LT1). Either can be swapped to fit the other with some drilling. F-body has the fuel lines come out on the drivers side and has a central port for EGR. Corvette has fuel lines that come out on the passenger side and has an external port for EGR. Corvette fuel rails fit F-body intakes and vise-versa. The runners are all the same through the years, but the LH runner has a hole for a 9th injector in the 85-88 runners. This can be plugged off if you get a nice LH runner and don’t want the 9th injector or decide to run speed-density. The plenums all physically interchange, but 90-92 have an extra vacuum port for the MAP sensor used with the speed-density computers and wiring. 89 is an odd year, it is mass-air flow but without the 9th injector. 89 up throttle bodies can be used on all years, but a 85-88 throttle body requires a ½” hole be drilled in the front of a 89-92 Plenum for idle air. 89-92 Throttle bodies have a bit more desirable cable attachment. The cable attaches around a circular linkage which has a smoother actuation than the straight linkage on the 85-88. The Corvettes have an aluminum plenum extension over the distributor, the F-body extensions are plastic. The Corvettes use an HEI coil-in-cap distributor for 85-91 (Delco 1103680). 85-86 F-body also used a big-cap distributor. 87-92 F-Body used a small cap distributor with an external coil (Delco 1103479). This same distributor is used in the 87-95 5.0/5.7/7.4 TBI injected trucks. The F-body intake gets it's exhaust for EGR from the center passages in the heads like most SB Chevys. A Corvette intake gets it's EGR exhaust from the RH exhaust manifold/header through a flex-tube to an opening near the distributor-no center passages in the intake. If you are required to keep EGR and you have a Corvette intake, I recommend getting the C4 exhaust manifolds. They are like mini-headers, and have a 2 1/2" outlet. I have them on my 69 and like them.
As far as a throttle cable to use, on my Vette, I used a TPI Corvette cable, 1990 I think (about $20 new GM) but you have to cut the end off inside the car and use a hood-release-cable end (Corvette Central 342138 "cable stop") to get it the correct cable length (the housing is OK). You must use a cable from the type car your throttle body came from if you want to have a chance of not cutting it. Again, 85-88 use a straight pull, while 89-92 have a circular attachment for more smooth actuation and so the inner cable is longer. On my 83 truck I used a TPI F-Body cable and it was OK, but I had to coil it up into a loop in the engine compartment because the housing was so long. I also TPI'd a 72 Chevy truck and used a 90 350 TBI truck cable for it. It was 1/2" short outside if anything, but I was pretty pleased with it all told-I didn't have to shorten it. In a Vette it might be about right. In all vehicles I've done you need a die grinder to square the firewall hole off a bit. All vehicles I've done used the late throttle-body.
Why to get it
If all you want is around 300 hp there is no reason to spend a pile of money on a crate motor. The basic $1200 4-bolt Goodwrench 350 with an aluminum intake and a Holley will put out power in that neighborhood. Chevy High Performance (I think) did a series of articles with one of those a few years back and with decent exhaust should get you in that range.
I would look into a TPI. They start immediately in winter, have great vacuum, and will get great mileage. I can open the headlights and the wiper door at the same time with no hesitation at all-solid wooomp. With 3.70 gears (and a 700R4 overdrive) I get 18mpg city and 22+ highway. With 3.55 or 3.36 it would be even better. You can probably find a used Corvette TPI engine for $1000 and with an $800 harness/computer/fuel pump you would be set. On a 78-82 you can use the stock fuel tank with an 82 sending unit and TPI pump and be in better shape than 68-77 with an external pump. With the Vette TPI you would have aluminum heads that would remove weight. Even with an F-body iron-head TPI 350 it will be less weight than a stock intake. It will bolt up to everything in your car, use stock accessories, use your transmission, and the visual appeal is awesome. Don't be afraid of fuel injection, it really works.
As far as websites see:
www.corvettefaq.com for conversions or more TPI info at www.fuelinjection.com
