72 starting problems.......sometimes!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: brandon florida
72 starting problems.......sometimes!
I need some help! A relay on the passsenger side of the car attached to
the heat/ac compartment under the hood. wire colors
are: orange, purple, black, and blue. Haven't been
able to find it in an Eckler's catalog. Lately i've had a
problem with the car not wanting to start everytime.
At first i thought it might be the battery so i
charged it, checked the volts with the car off (14)and
running (13.87), okay there. Next i checked the
starter 2 ways, first removed it, took it to the shop
and had it put on the bench, everything checked good.
2nd i shorted the starter at the solenoid and the
starter engaged, but when i shorted the solenoid
nothing, i expected to hear a clicking sound. What i
did hear was the relay making a noise. When it won't
start by turning the key, the noise can be heard from
the relay too. I thought it might be that the starter
and solenoid are getting hot as the car does have
headers but i do have it wrapped with a heat resistant
blanket. The problem is that it doesn't do it all the
time, i've waited a few minutes and it starts, i've
jumped it and it starts, but there have been times
where neither has worked. I've also tried banging the
starter and solenoid with no luck. I've been told that
you can buy a high performance starter and solenoid,
heard of it? I thought one was as good as another.
Strange isn't it? Any insight?
the heat/ac compartment under the hood. wire colors
are: orange, purple, black, and blue. Haven't been
able to find it in an Eckler's catalog. Lately i've had a
problem with the car not wanting to start everytime.
At first i thought it might be the battery so i
charged it, checked the volts with the car off (14)and
running (13.87), okay there. Next i checked the
starter 2 ways, first removed it, took it to the shop
and had it put on the bench, everything checked good.
2nd i shorted the starter at the solenoid and the
starter engaged, but when i shorted the solenoid
nothing, i expected to hear a clicking sound. What i
did hear was the relay making a noise. When it won't
start by turning the key, the noise can be heard from
the relay too. I thought it might be that the starter
and solenoid are getting hot as the car does have
headers but i do have it wrapped with a heat resistant
blanket. The problem is that it doesn't do it all the
time, i've waited a few minutes and it starts, i've
jumped it and it starts, but there have been times
where neither has worked. I've also tried banging the
starter and solenoid with no luck. I've been told that
you can buy a high performance starter and solenoid,
heard of it? I thought one was as good as another.
Strange isn't it? Any insight?
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 19,659
Likes: 34
From: Lenoir City Tennessee
Ci 6, 8 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Still sounds like heat soak to me. You can buy a new solenoid for a reasonable price at Autozone or Napa. This helped out on my 79. It used to every now and again, not start for me. If I let it set for a few minutes it would fire up. If I understand what you are saying, yours is doing the same thing.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,804
Likes: 4
From: Standing still with all my might Texas
Cruise-In X Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09-'11
The only reason there would be a remote starter relay in that position is if you or a previous owner installed one.
The relay you are describing sounds like the high blower relay, and if that is the case it has nothing to do with your starting problems.
Your starter problems could be caused by either heat soak, or it could be bad contacts on the armeture.
I have had two starters with bad contacts between the armeture and the brushes. The starters would work most of the time, but if by chance the starter motor managed to stop with the bad contacts aligned with the brushes it would not engage at all (no click, no spin, nothing).
It was sometimes possible to get them to work by hitting the starter housing repeatedly, and sometimes if you used jumper cables it would provide enough power to create and arc across the bad part of the commutator and get it going. The only real solution was to replace the starters.
If your problem is heat soak there are many many threads in the archives with discussions on how to fix it.
The relay you are describing sounds like the high blower relay, and if that is the case it has nothing to do with your starting problems.
Your starter problems could be caused by either heat soak, or it could be bad contacts on the armeture.
I have had two starters with bad contacts between the armeture and the brushes. The starters would work most of the time, but if by chance the starter motor managed to stop with the bad contacts aligned with the brushes it would not engage at all (no click, no spin, nothing).
It was sometimes possible to get them to work by hitting the starter housing repeatedly, and sometimes if you used jumper cables it would provide enough power to create and arc across the bad part of the commutator and get it going. The only real solution was to replace the starters.
If your problem is heat soak there are many many threads in the archives with discussions on how to fix it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 109
While you are checking things,do a load test on battery.
Check connections for the starter circuit,from battery to starter,see
what kind of voltage drop you have not just at battery.
The starters that you have heard of are the gear reduction units,some are better then others,I believe I paid around $100.00 for the one I have.
The smile & laugh is for my very close friends on here. 
Good trouble shooting
& try hitting the starter with a bigger
next time.
Check connections for the starter circuit,from battery to starter,see
what kind of voltage drop you have not just at battery.
The starters that you have heard of are the gear reduction units,some are better then others,I believe I paid around $100.00 for the one I have.
The smile & laugh is for my very close friends on here. Good trouble shooting
& try hitting the starter with a bigger
next time.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in Mo
heat soak (or is it seek?) I bet.
I spent weeks swapping parts and testing components on a 72 Camaro finally..wrapped the starter with heat shield and added a bolt on heat shield plate and fixed the problem...sure wish I had tried that first.
This car would start until it got hot...then you never knew for sure.
good luck.
Tim
This car would start until it got hot...then you never knew for sure.
good luck.
Tim
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: GA
Check your wire harness going to the solenoid. It runs between that hot motor and hot starter with a very weak protective barrier. Mine deteriorated over the years allowing intermittent contact with the block. When this happened a short would occur preventing start.
Strangely, this never blew any fuse or caused any other damage. I suspect this is due to the feedback into the ignition ballast resister. The resister absorbed the short-circuit. The original in-line wire has since been replaced with the wire plus resister. This isn't the point, however.
Bottom line,...simply drop the starter and check the wires...could be a simple fix there and its easy to overlook.
good luck...
hawk
Strangely, this never blew any fuse or caused any other damage. I suspect this is due to the feedback into the ignition ballast resister. The resister absorbed the short-circuit. The original in-line wire has since been replaced with the wire plus resister. This isn't the point, however.
Bottom line,...simply drop the starter and check the wires...could be a simple fix there and its easy to overlook.
good luck...
hawk
