Starter dragging bad. 3rd starter this week.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
Starter dragging bad. 3rd starter this week.
3rd different starter dragging now. I have tried 2 different mini-starters and now I have the stock starter on my '76 vette (383 stroker motor, stock block and flywheel, new ring gear). I can't for the life of me figure out what the problem is.
I took it to the alternator shop that rebuilt my alternator and they did some tests on it and said the starter is dragging and pulling way to much power (500 amps I think? This opposed to the 150 amps they said it should pull when cranking. It may not have been amps, forgot the measuring unit.
Is there a relay or something that could cause this? Could it be I don't have it shimmed properly? What else could be the problem?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave Winters
I took it to the alternator shop that rebuilt my alternator and they did some tests on it and said the starter is dragging and pulling way to much power (500 amps I think? This opposed to the 150 amps they said it should pull when cranking. It may not have been amps, forgot the measuring unit.
Is there a relay or something that could cause this? Could it be I don't have it shimmed properly? What else could be the problem?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave Winters
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
The engine runs perfect once it starts. The starter is just turning very slowly despite the battery being fine. The guys at the local generator shop told me it was 'dragging' and when they tested it was pulling way more voltage or amperage than needed (2-3 times too much).
Even under a 50 amp boost, the starter turns very slowly.
It's not the engine it continues to run perfectly at all RPM ranges, at least up to 5k rpm (havent driven it higher recently). The motor idles perfectly as well just as it always has.
It's not the battery, it was tested.
The alternator is fine too as it was tested and recently rebuilt (2 weeks ago).
Again, I have had 3 different, new starters on it this week, 2 of them hgih torque.
Not sure what else to do other than mess with the shims?
dw
Even under a 50 amp boost, the starter turns very slowly.
It's not the engine it continues to run perfectly at all RPM ranges, at least up to 5k rpm (havent driven it higher recently). The motor idles perfectly as well just as it always has.
It's not the battery, it was tested.
The alternator is fine too as it was tested and recently rebuilt (2 weeks ago).
Again, I have had 3 different, new starters on it this week, 2 of them hgih torque.
Not sure what else to do other than mess with the shims?
dw
Racer
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 292
Likes: 2
From: Plumas Lake CA
When I put the 383 LT1 in my '94 Impala, the starter would drag. It sounded like it had a blower on it for the instant the starter was engaged, kind of a "zing" sound. I bought some shims at Napa, installed one, and the sound was gone. I'm not sure if the starter was actually taking longer to turn the motor over, but if the gears aren't aligned it's bound to tie things up a little more than usual.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Originally Posted by CorvetteDave01
The guys at the local generator shop told me it was 'dragging' and when they tested it was pulling way more voltage or amperage than needed (2-3 times too much).
Again, I have had 3 different, new starters on it this week, 2 of them hgih torque.
Not sure what else to do other than mess with the shims?
dw
Again, I have had 3 different, new starters on it this week, 2 of them hgih torque.
Not sure what else to do other than mess with the shims?
dw
During the test if the starter drew too much current and it was in the car, i would belive the shims fix might work. If the starter drew too much current not connected to the engine then the starter is the problem
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Pro
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Mooresville NC
Short term fix to the high torq starter maybe to retard the timing a little to see if that helps any. All the starters I've ever replaced required that shims be checked. 9.8 compression doesn't sound high enough to cause a "drag" on the starter.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Bakersfield CA.
Originally Posted by 1mpalss
When I put the 383 LT1 in my '94 Impala, the starter would drag. It sounded like it had a blower on it for the instant the starter was engaged, kind of a "zing" sound. I bought some shims at Napa, installed one, and the sound was gone. I'm not sure if the starter was actually taking longer to turn the motor over, but if the gears aren't aligned it's bound to tie things up a little more than usual.
I heard that in some applactions you need to use shims to make the gears engage correctly.Ive also heard ,(and I cant remember,that a auto trans,or is it the standard trans,needs shims and the other does not?)
Im about to encounter this same issue myself when I do my engine swap.
good luck.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,675
Likes: 13
From: Sudbury MA
How do you go about determining if shims are required and how many shims since you really can't see anything once the starter is in place? Mine bolts up perfectly but how do I know if I need shims? New stock motor and newly rebuilt (professionally) starter. Starts great when cold but after engine gets hot starter turns over real slow until engine cools. I have read all the postings about heat soak and shields and solenoid springs etc but I want to keep everything stock on my 68 since it worked OK for the last 37 years but now that I had the engine completely rebuilt it has this hot start problem and I am wondering if shims are the answer. I have never used any shims in any starter in the past so I am new to this. Thanks,
Kurt
Kurt
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Originally Posted by MILO
Short term fix to the high torq starter maybe to retard the timing a little to see if that helps any.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Try this first... it's a common thing.
Happens a lot when a distributor is dropped in for the first time at a ballpark location, or is advanced too much by accident... and engine turns slow or not at all.
Since you've tried 3 starters, evidence points to too much initial advance instead of a starter issue.
Could also be a bad connection.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
OK thanks a lot for the pointers all. I talked to my father today about it as well and he agrees that the shims is the best place to start. I am busy with work again for a week or so, but will start messing with the shims as soon as I can.
I will also look at the timing, but it hasn't been changed for probably 10 years. I guess this gives me an excuse to by a timing light...
One other thing that is different. I did put a different, used, Lakewood bellhousing and block shield on it with the new Tremec TKO tranny (last month I finished it). The bellhousing was planed parallel and the flywheel was surfaced and had a new ring gear put on it as well just before the install. I don't see how this could affect things as the starter bolts to the block, but I thought I would mention it.
Thanks again,
Dave Winters
I will also look at the timing, but it hasn't been changed for probably 10 years. I guess this gives me an excuse to by a timing light...
One other thing that is different. I did put a different, used, Lakewood bellhousing and block shield on it with the new Tremec TKO tranny (last month I finished it). The bellhousing was planed parallel and the flywheel was surfaced and had a new ring gear put on it as well just before the install. I don't see how this could affect things as the starter bolts to the block, but I thought I would mention it.
Thanks again,
Dave Winters
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 424
Likes: 2
I had a starter problem and replaced it with a Summit Protorque Starter. It's a nice mini starter for the money. I found out when I was replacing it that I probobly didn't shim my original starter correctly. In the car, another problem is the power cables. Their is alot of amps being pulled through those cables, which are moderately sized from the factory, add that to an old car and you need a cable replacement/upgrade.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 3
From: Burlington WI
a new ring gear put on it as well just before the install.
