I remember reading an article about a C3 break upgrade in Corvette Fever/Magazine/Quarterly a year or so back. They had stats of stock versus one of the good aftermarket kits (SSBC or Wilwood). Does anyone have a link to this article or know any others? I am especially interested in Wilwood kits vs stock.

Thank you.

Dave

 

This is the link. www.vetteweb.com/tech/0110vet_force/index.html

 

http://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?fu...&SubGroup=1917

 

Vansteel, aside from the braking performance advantage and the loss of weight (which are both significant) with the Force 10 caliper system, what is different about the design of these calipers that the seals won't leak and pump air over time like the originals? Both systems are a fixed caliper design, so aren't these prone to air pumping and leakage regardless? Thanks.

 

considering we already have 4 piston, 4 wheel disc, the advantages if any will be very little. my stock brakes with modern pads and tires work fantastic! remember they are trying to SELL you a product. not to mention its the latest trend. dont you think the magazines are a little biased as the manufacturers are paying advertising money? ya id give em' a good review too, if they were paying me that big $$! you might shave a few ounces with the aluminum, but have you considerd flex? flex is a bad thing with corvette brakes. if you had any other car, youd have me on board. but this trend wont hunt with a vette.

 

redC3, I do not necessarily share your cynicism. I read the entire article. I think it is naive to believe that a system that was first introduced in 1965 (40 years ago) cannot be improved upon. I am not saying that this $1,450 brake system is necessarily the answer. I know probably most people on this forum who are driving cars with these braking systems have had problems bleeding the air out and keeping it out of the system as well as leaking calipers. The system is susceptible to allowing air in the lines due to rotor runout and caliper piston seal issues. I for one would like to know how this system is different from a design perspective to eliminate or minimize these issues. The very reason I asked the question is because the two systems appear to be so similar (both are four piston fixed caliper designs). If the only difference between the stock system and the SSBC system is a few pounds of unsprung weight then it is definitely not worth the cost in my opinion, but assuming there is some journalistic integrity in that article, then there is a definite braking performance advantage to the SSBC. The question is as the rotors and pads and the rest of the brake system wears, will we have the same issue of air in the lines, leaking caliper pistons seals, etc.

Van Steel, since you sell this SSBC system can you address the above? Thanks.

 

Brake! Brake! Trust me, I don't want anything down there breaking!

Without some major leap in brake technology, the stockers seem fine for any sort of normal performance driving. As has been pointed out, they are 4-piston calipers, and can stop the car on a dime.

 

Red Devil said they would make me a 6 piston caliper for the front but the cost was over $1300 per caliper. Baer is refining a 6 piston caliper as I write this and the cost is going to be $2895 for the front only. It will include rotors also and a few other tidbits. Red Devil quoted me $10,000 for titanium rotors all around with 6 piston calipers on the front and 4 piston calipers on the rear. Joy!

 

i see your point bb68vette, but dont think just because something is 40 yrs old that is bad or not as good as something new. i just dont follow blindly into trends. and yes i could afford them if i were so inclined. but on the other hand, they are a lot PRETTIER than my cast calipers. at least that would be a plus

 

It's simple.
If you think your brakes are good enough they are.

Whe you start driving your car hard enough you will find the limits of the brakes and will want to upgrade.

In other words, stock brakes are fine for cruzin,, but if you start to do high speed autocross you will probably want better brakes.

Better meaning less flex, better heat disapation, lighter weight...

100-0 distances are mostly determined by your pads and tires

 

Here is my 2 cents worth....when I was auto-crossing my black 68 I ran with Yokohama 008R's, Hossier autocrossers, and 12.5 inch road race slicks. I was able to lock the brakes at will...stock rotors and semi-mettalic pads...nothing special....FWIW

 

How about wheel fitment?? Do these calipers give you more room for after-market wheels??

 

No matter what type of 4 piston caliper you use, you will always get air into your braking system w/these cars if you run out is too high. The main feature for this kit is that the calipers are lighter which as mentioned above helps with unsprung weight. They do use stainless steel pistons and they use what is called a quad seal for the pistons.

Another feature for these is the appearance along with 30% better stopping power. They will work w/aftermarket rims as well. They are a tad thinner than the stock calipers after a redesign which was about a yr ago. I don't think you need to worry about the integrity of these calipers. They are well disigned and very strong. SSBC has a machine that they test their calipers with and after so much pressure it blows the calipers up. I am more than positive these calipers would never blow up on you.

 

I agree being made of aluminum they would be lighter but 30% better stopping?? How does that work??? The piston area determines clamping force. The pads themselves determine friction or fade. Just changing stock organic pads to a good quality metalic pad would do wonders for our braking system for repeated braking without fade.
If our stock calipers are installed correctly they do not pump air. As for leaking I had one but O ring seals corrected that.
I feel other then weight there is no advantage to switching calipers. Not at the price anyway.

 

Maybe you're right, maybe not...all I can tell you from my days of racing on Nelson's...(2.2 Mile), Mid-America, Watkins Glenn, and other tracks...NCAA high speed events....stock brakes worked fine. In fact, in the late 60's early 70's, before Wildwood and other mfg's appeared on the scene, the Corvette racing teams, running Le Mans, Sebring, The Glenn, and other tracks used what brakes? F A C T O R Y J-56's. Sure the new stuff should be better than the factory, but don't sell this 40 year old system short. It works fine on and off the track.

Regarding the rotor runnout...in all honesty, I've never had any problem with air getting into the system. The time I replaced the rear rotors, I had them rivited.

 

did you tell us before that you were on the track only a couple of laps at a time?

The brakes get really hot when you run 20-30 minutes at a time.

The old tyme racers used cooling ducts and other tricks to keep things cool.

 

Yes...single lap, man against the clock, run by classes. Minimum three timed runs. Run by classes, when the first round run, then the second round, then third...

SCCA guys ran stock brakes...

 

anyone have any 60-0 stopping distance w/stock calipers using upgraded pads instead of organic?

 

I'm visiting from the C2 area, but have to chime in. Stock calipers weigh about 10 pounds each, so the swap might save you 32 pounds of unsprung weight and give you clearance for a larger selection of aftermarket wheels.

I did this swap years ago with a full custom caliper adapter and Wilwood calipers. I don't see how the swap could give 30% better braking without some sort of qualification. Is that 30% shorter stopping distances after 10 100-0 stops when compared to stock brakes and organic pads, or what?

I did the swap because I wanted to run wheels that needed a spacer, I wanted lighter weight, and I wanted better reliability. I do think that the modern brakes can have better reliability and "air sucking" resistance. I did have air sucking problems and my runout was verified to be good.

Here is a link to pictures of the swap, with parts used listed. I think the total cost for this was well under $1,000.
http://epage.com/brad/Corvette/Wilwood/index.html

 

did you use 4 heidts brackets?

I have been wondering why the heidts brackets couldn't be used on the front?