First "timer"
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,896
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From: CO
First "timer"
This is the first time I have used a timing light on an engine.
So I loosened the dist. Hooked up the timing gun. Checked timing at idle. 50 degrees advance
All I have done is put a new timing chain on. I never timed it before the change so I dont know what it was at. But there was some slack in the old chain.
The vacuum advance was hooked up. I also think that its hung up or bound up.
Where do I start? I read that I should be around 12degrees BTDC at idle right?
So I loosened the dist. Hooked up the timing gun. Checked timing at idle. 50 degrees advance
All I have done is put a new timing chain on. I never timed it before the change so I dont know what it was at. But there was some slack in the old chain.
The vacuum advance was hooked up. I also think that its hung up or bound up.
Where do I start? I read that I should be around 12degrees BTDC at idle right?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Verify that your balancer outer ring has not slipped on the elastomer/rubber between it, and the inner hub. Make sure the pointer indicates true TDC of #1 cylinder.
I assume you did use a balancer installer (rather than pound the balancer back on), and, that your new timing set has only one possible installation keyway, or that you selected the correct (non-advanced) keyway.
I assume you did use a balancer installer (rather than pound the balancer back on), and, that your new timing set has only one possible installation keyway, or that you selected the correct (non-advanced) keyway.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by flood
I should be around 12degrees BTDC at idle right?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,896
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From: CO
Originally Posted by lars
No. You need to be at 36 total. This may or may not produce 12 initial, but hopefully it will get you about 18. Initial timing is mostly irrelevant - you need to set up for total timing.
I will check the inner workings of the dist and see if the advance is bound up.
When I installed the timing chain everything appeared ok. The balancer hadn't slipped (I did use the installation tool) and it was close to the #1 plug wire on the distributor when the timing mark was lined up at 0*. It was off a bit but I figured that it had been setup for advance and wouldn't line up 100%. I didn't actually pull a plug and line it up with TDC or anything. DIdn't think I needed to.
I will say that once I got the timing down to about 20* it ran a heck of alot better than it did at 50*
When I started it set at 50* it kind of rolled to life. Now it starts like it used to, kind of cracks to life. Much better. I'll look at it tonight and play with the vacuum and see what I come up with.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Remove the bolt holding the distributor down, lift it up and move the rotor back one tooth and drop back in the hole. Click the starter until it drops into the oil pump shaft and reinstall the the hold down bolt. Now check the timing. This will move the vacuum advance outward again.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,356
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From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by howler
Click the starter until it drops into the oil pump shaft.
If you need any help, or if you want some instruction on use of the adjustable light and setting up timing, just bring the car over. I'll be glad to go over it with you. If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
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Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
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Originally Posted by lars
flood - Please don't do this. You stand a good chance of breaking the shaft connector coupling and the tangs off the shaft.
If you need any help, or if you want some instruction on use of the adjustable light and setting up timing, just bring the car over. I'll be glad to go over it with you. If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
If you need any help, or if you want some instruction on use of the adjustable light and setting up timing, just bring the car over. I'll be glad to go over it with you. If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
That's an invitation I wouldn't decline!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Me too, take him up on his offer, Lars *IS* the man. He has helped so many of us just with advice and his excellent articles, being able to go over to his place and have him show you first hand is very valuable. You need to make sure you take him some good brewskies
-dath
-dath
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,896
Likes: 2
From: CO
Originally Posted by lars
flood - Please don't do this. You stand a good chance of breaking the shaft connector coupling and the tangs off the shaft.
If you need any help, or if you want some instruction on use of the adjustable light and setting up timing, just bring the car over. I'll be glad to go over it with you. If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
If you need any help, or if you want some instruction on use of the adjustable light and setting up timing, just bring the car over. I'll be glad to go over it with you. If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
One day I will be up to your place though. Im holding off on insurance and plates untill I get the front suspension done. It goes thru front tires FAST.I am going to plug up the vacuum advance and check it again friday night and see what I can come up with.
Last edited by flood; Sep 29, 2005 at 11:12 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
From: Valencia (near LA) CA
Originally Posted by lars
If the distributor needs to be re-oriented I'll show you the right way to do it.
Thanks,
~Jay
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 3
From: Wildwood IL
Originally Posted by flood
I would love to take you up on this, but the car is not insured and has plates from 04 .
.Eddie
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,356
Likes: 6,328
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by Jay M
Is it as simple as sticking a long screwdriver into the hole and turning the oil pump a little bit?
Thanks,
~Jay
Thanks,
~Jay
No, you don't need to use a screwdriver. I use a technique that I call "walking the distributor" as outlined in my Distributor Installation paper. I also demonstrate this technique during the tuning tours. It's a very fast way of installing the distributor in any desired orientation without the use of a screwdriver and without using the starter (makes me shudder). The guys who have seen this done during the Tuning Sessions can attest to this: You can install the distributor into any desired orientation in about 15 seconds. During the sessions it takes me about 25 seconds, but that's because I talk and drink beer while doing the install...
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: CO
Ok, I got a chance to mess with it a little last night. I am not getting any advance at all. It says at whatever I set it at no matter what RPM.
I unplugged the vacuum (and plugged) and the timing changed just a little bit and the engine lost RPM.
I set it for 36 degrees, it stayed. However there is NO upper RPM power.
I am going to pull the dist and take it to my friend that works on cars. He said he has some spare HEI parts if I need them and that he would help me out. So once I make sure everything in the dist is working correctly I will try it again.
I unplugged the vacuum (and plugged) and the timing changed just a little bit and the engine lost RPM.
I set it for 36 degrees, it stayed. However there is NO upper RPM power.
I am going to pull the dist and take it to my friend that works on cars. He said he has some spare HEI parts if I need them and that he would help me out. So once I make sure everything in the dist is working correctly I will try it again.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,356
Likes: 6,328
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
The mechanical advance is just seized up. You just need to disassemble the distributor and lube it up correctly. You also need to replace the vac advance with a good unit. Make sure the distrubutor gear gets installed the right way... the roll pin hole is not drilled symmetrically.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,896
Likes: 2
From: CO
Originally Posted by lars
The mechanical advance is just seized up. You just need to disassemble the distributor and lube it up correctly. You also need to replace the vac advance with a good unit. Make sure the distrubutor gear gets installed the right way... the roll pin hole is not drilled symmetrically.
Last edited by flood; Sep 30, 2005 at 05:03 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: CO
I had some time recently to take everything apart!
I took digital pics of the dist before removal and marked it so I hope I am good to go there.
The mechanical advance is very bound up. I couldn't budge it. So I just ordered from the local parts store 1 Ac Delco magnetic pickup and 1 Ac Delco Vacuum advance.
The Vac advance was hard to move by hand so I would assume its gummed up too. I dont know how hard it should be to move by hand as I haven't ever done this before. I will know when the new one gets here! A friend of mine (mechanic) has offered to help me take the dist apart and "rebuild" it.
I also think that "while im at it" new intake manifold gaskets are in order. Anyone got an alum intake they dont want? Just throwin that out there.
I took digital pics of the dist before removal and marked it so I hope I am good to go there.
The mechanical advance is very bound up. I couldn't budge it. So I just ordered from the local parts store 1 Ac Delco magnetic pickup and 1 Ac Delco Vacuum advance.
The Vac advance was hard to move by hand so I would assume its gummed up too. I dont know how hard it should be to move by hand as I haven't ever done this before. I will know when the new one gets here! A friend of mine (mechanic) has offered to help me take the dist apart and "rebuild" it.
I also think that "while im at it" new intake manifold gaskets are in order. Anyone got an alum intake they dont want? Just throwin that out there.